l/a intercoolers, torque, and random nonsense.... hosted by DCR

[ozzzzz]

You are absolutly right about water to air being more efficient at transfering heat better than air to air. I have been in the HVAC field for 10 years and worked with large commercial chillers and very small ice machines (and a lot in between). Water to air is better. The thing is it has to be matched properly to the application for it to work its best. Just my 2cents.

[TurboGhost]

Originally Posted by JMEngineer .... As far as safety.. I said replace the crash bar, not remove the crash bar - as in use less of a stronger material or a better shape to get the same structural properties in less space. Edit: exactly like what SS did^^ I've seen some promising data on L/A intercoolers but I'm still not convinced they perform well for long periods of time or after the car sits in the sun for a while and the water heats up.

"I said replace the crash bar, not remove the crash bar"

Got it, I first read it as "replace the crash bar with an intercooler". Some ppl would just cut the bar without replacing it's function. It looks like it's intended to deal with fender benders and would play little role in a serious crash, but in a new car there's not extra structure. I'm guessing that the bar also helps stiffen the chassis from twisting.
SS Installer's welded in piece is the right way to go; not everyone thinks it through like that.

[FantasmoNegro]

Let me tell you about L/A intercoolers. The only things it has an advatage over A/A is that it takes longer to heat soak and it can be filled with ice water for racing apps. Don't forget the heat exchanger in a LA intercooler will only be as effective as the air that is cooling it, this being the same air that would be used to cool the A/A intercooler, so its a wash. LA intercoolers also have the advantage of being more compact, but only at the cost of being more complex.

[kilik2]

That is where a heatsink comes in, but no one realizes that no matter what system you use you need a heatsink. In an A/A IC you use the ambient air as a heatsink. In a L/A you can use a myriad of things as a heatsink, a seperate flowing water source, a condenser, refrigerant, tec's, most of these could be used with A/A too but L/A would be more efficient.

I am almost done with the DCR logo. I am going to ask a friend of mine for some input before I say I am done with it. (He is much more creative than I am.)
Do they want to keep the skill and pistons or would they like something completely different? I kinda used the skull idea.

[smakdown61]

I don't understand the point of any A/L intercooler when you can do meth for half the price and get better results.

[FantasmoNegro]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 I don't understand the point of any A/L intercooler when you can do meth for half the price and get better results.

Because A/L never runs out.

[SpeedSixxx]

lemme also explain something...

A/A is only more efficient when driving long distance or "road/course" racing as the core is always being cooled by flowing air.

in every other aspect the L/A set up blows away the A/A cores..

sitting at the track L/A will not heat soak as a A/A would and in everyday driving and weekend racing (driving along the strip looking for a quick drag) the L/A will blow a A/A away because the A/A will always need a bit of driving/air flow time to cool down where the L/A will always be at coolant temps and ready to go....this is what I read and learned in a few forums and web sites that offer L/A and A/A cores ...

good luck....buy a A/A and don't think about it...it's easier and cheaper!


Peace NIGGAHS

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 I don't understand the point of any A/L intercooler when you can do meth for half the price and get better results.

+1 ... My A/A will get to 150* but I leave the light and step on it ... as soon as the meth is spraying it drops like a stone to and sometimes just below ambient ... I don't see L/A performing like that.

LOL 2 new title .... GIVE US MORE NEW PICS and we'll stop this incesive BS

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx lemme also explain something... A/A is only more efficient when driving long distance or "road/course" racing as the core is always being cooled by flowing air. in every other aspect the L/A set up blows away the A/A cores.. sitting at the track L/A will not heat soak as a A/A would and in everyday driving and weekend racing (driving along the strip looking for a quick drag) the L/A will blow a A/A away because the A/A will always need a bit of driving/air flow time to cool down where the L/A will always be at coolant temps and ready to go....this is what I read and learned in a few forums and web sites that offer L/A and A/A cores ...

In a vehicle your dealing with a finite amount of coolant in the system cooling down the charge air, but that coolant must then be cooled back down by AIR...

So essentially once you have brought the coolant temp of your L/A IC system up to ambient air temps you are essentially no more efficient than a traditional A/A IC.

If an A/A IC can't bring charge air temps below ambient, how is an L/A IC any more efficient when the coolant it uses to cool the charge air must be itself cooled down by the same air the A/A IC would be using.. The temperature change in an A/W system may be faster, but unless you add a secondary means to reduce the temperature of the coolant in the system, the end product is essentially the same---charge temps no better than ambient.

Originally Posted by glocK23 How can A/A be more efficient than A/L cooling? If not half assed, liquid cooling is more efficient at dissipating heat. Take for example engine coolant, PC watercooling, nuclear reactors as stated by klik.

L/A cooling is only more efficient in those situations because the airflow is very limited, or the surface area of those parts needing cooling is relatively small. In a vehicle traveling at speed you have an essentially limitless amount of ambient air to cool down your IC which has a MASSIVE surface area in relation to the amount of air flowing through..

[kilik2]

done arguing. when I get some money I will build a real l/a intercooler and show why it works. I wouldn't just have water running over an air intercooler, I would have a heatsink. I take it no one has read that yet. You have to have a heatsink if you are going to use a liquid. I will not divulge what heatsink I will use for fear that someone will try and steal it. Two years bitches, and I will have that shit fabbed and on my next car.
But whatever, A/A is better...I concede, and no longer feel like debating.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by kilik2 done arguing. when I get some money I will build a real l/a intercooler and show why it works. I wouldn't just have water running over an air intercooler, I would have a heatsink. I take it no one has read that yet. You have to have a heatsink if you are going to use a liquid. I will not divulge what heatsink I will use for fear that someone will try and steal it. Two years bitches, and I will have that shit fabbed and on my next car. But whatever, A/A is better...I concede, and no longer feel like debating.

Sorry to ruin your party, but out here where the rest of us live you can't just say "my way is better" and expect people to take it as gospel.

Just to be clear, what happens when your magical heatsink reaches the same temp as the ambient air? What are you then going to cool said "magical heatsink" back down with--If not a fan using air? Also, how much does your magical heatsink weigh, how much current does it's magical cooling system draw, where will you put it?

Two years, and I'll have a new house, and 600hp with an air to air IC.....

It's not personal it's the INTERNET..

[boosted3]

I never made this a thread lol.who did this lmaooo

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by boosted3 I never made this a thread lol.who did this lmaooo

I'd guess that Randy separated this OT crap from the DCR manifold thread..

[boosted3]

wtf thats gay,,,he wants to focus on making money thats why hahahhaha.So he makes this thread haha.wow whatever

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by boosted3 I never made this a thread lol.who did this lmaooo

you made the thread when you asked why dcr was wasting their time on turbo manis when they should be working on "fixes" and "safety" measures. thread went to ass.

btw... with the all the knowhow that the big nascar teams have... why the hell do you suppose they arent trying to pioneer better fuel economy, and better minivan crashtest ratings?

seems like a waste to spend all that money to go real fast round and round in a circle.

whatcha think boosted3? dumbasses arent they? stupid rednecks that just want to go stupid fast. they dont spend their time on the important stuff do they?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by boosted3 wtf thats gay,,,he wants to focus on making money thats why hahahhaha.So he makes this thread haha.wow whatever

gay?!?

its a vendor section dumbass. what else am i supposed to focus on here? i pay to have this section SPECIFICALLY to sell shit.

you are officially the biggest fucking idiot on this board....

dont post whore here anymore.... im gonna delete every one. your posts are totally flimflam junk.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by palerider Just curious... But why should dcr be trying to figure out why these motors blow? They already think they know why these motors blow. You just don't want to believe it. I'll tell you what the fix is. Ready?

Suggestion.
After the manifold, develop and sell the DCR Accessport map/ standback tune for various mods, guaranteed to make max power and not to blow.
You and DCR would make a fortune.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak Suggestion. After the manifold, develop and sell the DCR Accessport map/ standback tune for various mods, guaranteed to make max power and not to blow. You and DCR would make a fortune.

The only problem with that idea is the word "guaranteed".. Remove that one word and you have a great idea..

Add a little checkbox on the bottom of the sale page for "add built DCR longblock +$5999.99", if you add that little option, then they'll put "guaranteed" back in..

[JMEngineer]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller The only problem with that idea is the word "guaranteed".. Remove that one word and you have a great idea.. Add a little checkbox on the bottom of the sale page for "add built DCR longblock +$5999.99", if you add that little option, then they'll put "guaranteed" back in..

I can't wait until I can actually check that box...

[FreeFlyFreak]

You all know what I mean, palerider included.
I posted half joking and yet serious.
The DCR thinks the blowing problem is PT tuning related. So solve that first.
The power is tuning plus hardware. Solve that simultaneously, as you add hardware sell new tunes to match.
= DCR & pale make bank.

Steve

[killa cam]

isee the points many of you are trying to make about l\a vs a\a IC's, but i don't necessarily agree with them. in both cases, the most efficient you can get (without adding other methods like ice) is 100%. however, a\a IC's will be around 60-70% and max out at around 80% (with the absolute best being about 90%), whereas l\a IC's will be around 75-95%, with the possibility of 100%+ when adding ice. i dont see l\a IC's heatsoaking like a a\a IC would, as water is great at removing heat (4 times the specific heat of air!). a proper l\a IC will have a proper sized heat exchanger to cool the water. also cool is if you have a reservoir, you can add ice when you want for a cheap instant boost in performance!

the main downside to l\a is complexity. there is more shit to fail, and more shit to maintain. however, i think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. you may want something that seldom requires maintenance, and in that case you should get an a\a. remember to take the core out and clean it every 15k miles or so, because they do get messy inside and that will destroy the efficiency of any IC!

[FantasmoNegro]

Originally Posted by killa cam isee the points many of you are trying to make about l\a vs a\a IC's, but i don't necessarily agree with them. in both cases, the most efficient you can get (without adding other methods like ice) is 100%. however, a\a IC's will be around 60-70% and max out at around 80% (with the absolute best being about 90%), whereas l\a IC's will be around 75-95%, with the possibility of 100%+ when adding ice. i dont see l\a IC's heatsoaking like a a\a IC would, as water is great at removing heat (4 times the specific heat of air!). a proper l\a IC will have a proper sized heat exchanger to cool the water. also cool is if you have a reservoir, you can add ice when you want for a cheap instant boost in performance! the main downside to l\a is complexity. there is more shit to fail, and more shit to maintain. however, i think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. you may want something that seldom requires maintenance, and in that case you should get an a\a. remember to take the core out and clean it every 15k miles or so, because they do get messy inside and that will destroy the efficiency of any IC!

Where you say L/A is great at removing heat, its also a bitch to remove the heat once its there. A L/A intercooler is only as good as its heat exchanger allows it to be, and guess what that heat exchanger is cooled by? I currently own two cars, one with liquiad to air and one with air to air and there are differences, the air to air gets back to ambient temp much sooner, where liquid to air takes much longer to get heat soaked. So the real question is what YOU personally would rather have, a car that heats up quick in stop and go traffic, or a car that takes a forever to cool off once you are underway going down the road.

To be honest with yall my L/A intercooled car is getting an Air to Air When it enters the third stage of its life, maybe even a combo of both, but my flow requirements have outgrown my L/A in its current form.

[socks]

Originally Posted by kilik2 and those bitches get mighty hot. trust me.

you dont even want to know how hot.

[kilik2]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon you dont even want to know how hot.

My job requires me to.

[socks]

Originally Posted by kilik2 My job requires me to.

Heh, mine too. Ive been in a couple reactor buildings at full power. Not fun. 140* ambient, or 115* "wet bulb" temperature.

Where do you work?

[kilik2]

Are you a licensed operator? I am a reactor operator, Navy type, but I might be moving to the civilian sector at Southern Nuclear ( Southern Company) soon, we will see.

[socks]

Nope, contracted QC.

Which southern site? Ive been to Farley and Vogtle.

[kilik2]

probably farley, but I am looking at other options at the moment.
QC, is that the same as QA?

[socks]

Quality assurance/quality control... I actually work for a smaaaall niche division of GE that specifies in robotic/remote visual technologies.

[kilik2]

You QA/QC guys showing up and telling us everything is wrong, fucked up, and how the hell are we still alive. WE love you guys...LMAO.
That is cool as hell though. You probably do a lot of travelling then.

[socks]

Im not like that, I actually dont make any decisions or even inferences based on what i find. I provide the data to our customers and let them make decisions based on that.

I do travel a bit. Sometimes more than others.

[SgtP]

wow this just became a bunch of public PMs. More bitching, complaining and arguing please. that is all.

[socks]

did you miss the part in the title that said "random nonsense"

kthxbye.

[Laloosh]

don't buy the partial throttle thing. n54s run crazy af ratios, no1 changes shit part throttle, no1 blows. U blow cause the motor is weak, you dont make power with BT set ups cause.....? No1 knows, but i got a feeling if randy/dcr ever find out, they might be 1 of 5 in the whole country to dump that kind of change into a ms3.

[kilik2]

way to be on topic, douche.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by kilik2 way to be on topic, douche.

dumbest comment of the year?

Didnt you derail this entire page with your reactor/navy bullshit? At least my comment was about this car, and about randys discussion about pt....fuck off

[SgtP]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon did you miss the part in the title that said "random nonsense" kthxbye.

i guess that does fall into that category. here is some more random nonsense.

[kilik2]

Originally Posted by LaDouche dumbest comment of the year? Didnt you derail this entire page with your reactor/navy bullshit? At least my comment was about this car, and about randys discussion about pt....fuck off

Have a fucking sense of humor and check your shit talking at the door.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by kilik2 Have a fucking sense of humor and check your shit talking at the door.

ummm.....no, fuck off is still my answer

[kilik2]

Originally Posted by LaDouche ummm.....no, fuck off is still my answer

Ok, we see where your maturity level is at.
Check the thread title this has become a banter thread. If you want you can read another thread.
Maybe you didn't notice that the original comment was a play on your fucking name. Some people got their panties in a bunch over nothing.

Actually, when the thread changed I missed SSI response completely..LMAO
I am not saying that the design I want to do is complete yet, still plenty of time left in 2 years to design, test, fabricate, test some more and finish/ install. I hopefully will be in the same predicament as you with a 600hp car be it this one or another one, no more houses though, two is enough for me. I was merely stating that l/a is more efficient at cooling, technically it is still l/a/a unless you use a different heatsink. I have a couple ideas but that is all still brainstorming. I don't expect to sway anyone's opinion without hard evidence especially on this forum.