MS6 won't start

[Rizz Nasty]

Cleaned my valves, replaced the pcv and plugs while I had everything apart. Now the car will crank strong but won't start. Took it apart again and cleaned all of the harness plugs with contact cleaner and double checked everything was secured as it should be. Same end result. Cranks but won't fire up.

Where should I start troubleshooting?

[JSmith]

Same thing happened to me the first time I did my valves. I wasn't careful enough with sealing the valves and whatever dripped down.

Took my time, cranked and took a break. Then cranked some more. Took another break. Then jumped the battery and it started up.

YMMV of course.

[Rizz Nasty]

Yeah just to make sure that my cylinders were clear I cranked the motor to open the valves and cleared out the cylinder with compressed air. There was a little debris in cylinder 3.

[djern]

make sure all cables are connected, especially the ground over the pmm, it will prevent the car from starting

[Rizz Nasty]

So today I verified that I have spark, and checked fuel pressure and both are good. I tried some starter fluid right in the throttle body while cranking to no avail, then pulled the plugs and put a little starter fluid right in the cylinders and tried that and it still won't fire... I've cranked and recharged the battery and cranked and cranked about 3 times now.

I need some suggestions MSF gurus

[djern]

Originally Posted by Rizz Nasty So today I verified that I have spark, and checked fuel pressure and both are good. I tried some starter fluid right in the throttle body while cranking to no avail, then pulled the plugs and put a little starter fluid right in the cylinders and tried that and it still won't fire... I've cranked and recharged the battery and cranked and cranked about 3 times now. I need some suggestions MSF gurus

I bet you have something unplugged or partially connected... Pull your ecu codes

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[Rizz Nasty]

I've got no codes... The batteries unplugged during the valve cleaning.

[djern]

Originally Posted by Rizz Nasty I've got no codes... The batteries unplugged during the valve cleaning.

With the acc turned to on try to pull the codes

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[Rizz Nasty]

I did. No codes.

[djern]

Originally Posted by Rizz Nasty I did. No codes.

Check connections even if u think its good check them anyway

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[Rizz Nasty]

Odd, but what should MAP be reading when the cars off?
It said 16 something PSI when the car was off.

[Vansquish]

Is your MAF sensor connected?

When you say that you've got good for pressure, what does that mean? Did you happen to unplug the hpfp harness at some point?

[Rizz Nasty]

Never unplugged the hpfp harness. MAF is connected, but it should fire without it anyhow. I was looking at the fuel rail pressure to make sure something on the fuel side of the house wasn't fucked. It's got fuel and spark. I'm stumped. If I can't figure it out in the next couple days I'll just have it towed to the shop

[Fi5H]

The MAP should read close to 0PSI if the car is turned off. Maybe you have pinched a cable off the MAP or its no good.

Does the MAP pressure drop when you crank the engine? the cranking should draw a large vacuum in the manifold and that reading should drop.

If you have a large vac leak it can also stop your car from starting, if you unplug the MAF sensor and crank it, it might start.

Do you have an AP to log what its doing when you crank it? These could be handy see.

- Accelerator Pedal Position
- AFR
- Boost
- Calculated Load
- HPFP Actual Pressure
- Injector Duty Cycle
- MAF Voltage
- MAF g/s
- LTFT
- STFT
- Spark Advance
- Throttle Position
- RPM

[Rizz Nasty]

I don't have a AP but I can see all of the data from my scanner. I'll have to take a look at the MAP reading when I crank. Or try disconnecting it and give it a go.

[Vansquish]

@Rizz Nasty;, there's a ground for the hpfp that, if not correctly connected, will allow the car to crank, but not fire. It's located in the bracket just in front of the hpfp. The bracket has the ignition harness connector mounted to it (and maybe injection harness connector too...can't remember exactly).

Edit: dis one!

[Rizz Nasty]

So I checked the ground for the hpfp and it's solid. I pulled a plug and cranked to check again for spark and for fuel. Good fuel and spark.

I'm at a loss... I called a family friend mechanic and he gave me the same things to trouble shoot then was at a loss too.

Tried unplugging the MAF, then unplugged the MAP, then both, just for shits and gig's. No dice... Cranks for days and nothing

[Fi5H]

If there is fuel and spark then I'd imagine its air related or air registering issue, could be a huge vac leak or maybe MAP sensor is no good.

Have you taken the manifold back off and checked the gasket hasn't bent or the PCV line has fallen off or something silly?

[Rizz Nasty]

I took everything apart again and double checked everything. But even if there was an air metering issue or even a huge leak, wouldn't it still fire up? Even if the idle was rough it should still if it has fuel air and spark right?

I'm no rocket surgeon...

I'm gonna try and bump start the fucker this weekend... Tow it at about 10mph and ease out the clutch in first gear.

[Fi5H]

Just a long shot but did you re-gap (0.026 - 0.028) the new spark plugs?

With a really bad vac leak I wouldn't thought it would run but you can hear it generally if its that bad. I left a vac line off my intake mani once and when it cranked it fired then stalled straight away.

[Rizz Nasty]

The new plugs were ITV22's and they were gapped between 28-30

[Vansquish]

Let's get back to fuel.

What sort of pressure are you seeing? Your fuel pressure should be far in excess of what the in-tank pump can provide (~60-70psi). If that's all your rail sensor is seeing, then your HPFP is probably not functioning and/or your injectors aren't firing.

[Rizz Nasty]

FP is about 680psi when cranking

[Vansquish]

OK, so can you verify that the injectors are actually firing?

[ksto3]

I'm sitting here with greasy hands typing this message, in the same exact situation. Did the EGR delete, OCC, and valve cleaning, now the bitch won't start. Cranks for days, too. I was just getting ready to start a post when I saw yours, so I'm going to follow along.

Put new plugs in, too, verified everything was connected. I uploaded a video, does yours sound like mine? https://youtu.be/ysbNy5KJ61U

I broke the VTCS tab off, but that shouldn't keep us from starting. After a couple of cranks the battery seems pretty worn out - it's taking 8 amps from the charger suddenly. I wonder if we've killed our batteries, and there aren't enough amps to turn it over?

[Rizz Nasty]

I rolled up a piece of paper and got it down in the cylinder to verify fuel was being inject. Fuel is good.

@ksto3, your actually sounds more promising than mine. Mine won't even attempt to fire, it sounds lime yours is trying. I'm going to tow it beind a truck and try and bump start this weekend. Maybe today if I have time. I'll let you know how that works

[Rizz Nasty]

This is he bad my valves were... Bought the car with 100,000 miles and never were they cleaned

[ksto3]

Well good luck to you, I hope it works. I've read some posts about the starter causing problems, after a manifold removal/reinstall. Something like the starter contacts get loose enough to keep it from starting. Have you tried any of those? Thought that might be my issue too, but haven't gotten that far.

[ksto3]

Man your valves were unbelievable! Mine had never been done either (107k miles), and were nothing like that!!!

Maybe it's our lucky day, because I got mine to start and it's all good now, after 5 days of trying. Let the battery sit on the charger a little longer, then cranked the piss out of it. It stumbled and started finally, and worked itself to normal. My next job will be to JB Weld that stupid VTCS tab, but not until I relax a while - the no-start has nearly killed me lol.

I hope yours fires up soon, I'll be watching this thread. If you get a chance to video the starting, maybe that would help others diagnose it. GOOD LUCK!

[5doorsoffury]

To op, does the tb work? Do you hear the self test when you key the car on without starting it? You have fuel and spark so maby air is the issue.

[Vansquish]

Check your fuel pump fuse(s) and the fuel pump relay as well!

Is it possible that the engine is currently flooded?

Have you tried cranking with the gas pedal fully on the floor for ~10 seconds, and then cranking normally to start afterwards?

[Rizz Nasty]

I can see the throttle body open when the cars on and you depress the accelerator.

@ksto3 that's awesome you got her running! I think some of that goo got down in the cylinder and it's just having a real hard time purging it out... I hoe pe it works out and I don't have to take it in to the mechanic.. I hate admitting defeat

So I looked at the fuel pump fuse first thing and its in great shape. Wouldn't fuel not be spraying if the Relay was bad? How do you know if a Relay is bad? I took it out and there was no signs of arcing or anything.

[Vansquish]

Is it possible that you left something stuffed in the intake manifold (shop towel, etc.) while you were doing the valve cleaning?

How much slack is in the timing chain?

Have you looked carefully at the connectors on the ignition/injector harnesses to make sure that all the wires are intact?

As an example, I had my cyl. 3 ignition wire pull out of the harness connector near the HPFP when I manipulated the harness a little bit to get to VTCS sensor switch. Had to solder that MFer back into place. Of course my car cranked and fired, just wasn't firing cyl. 3 until I fixed it.

[Rizz Nasty]

Shit I'll check that out. I'll pull all the plugs and make sure all of them are firing... Might pull back all of the harness shielding and check every damn wire

[Rizz Nasty]

Bump start for the mother fucking win!

Had to roll it down the driveway 3 times and let it go in first gear... Then it was good to go!

[JakeMS3]

Winning!

[ksto3]

Outstanding news! Did it start like normal after the bump?

[Rizz Nasty]

Starts just fine now. 80+ miles down with no CEL's and it seems to be idling smoother too

I imagine some of that gunk got into the cylinder and maybe coated the injectors preventing it from firing.

Thanks for everyone's insight