Water Injection How To... great start to our WI everything thread!

[ptperformance]

How to: Water/Meth injection install - Mazda6 / Atenza

This is just a start guys. I will get video's up and many other upgrades listed here for you.

Why would you put your nozzle anywhere else in the system? It as if Mazda wanted us to install this here.

YouTube - lower nozzle spray pattern

YouTube - lower nozzle spray pattern

[ptperformance]

Well here it is guys, very easy to do and when we have the new plugs ready to ship out you will be the first to get to try this.

Now, here are the directions for the removal and install of the expansion plug.

Tools needed will be:

Flat blade screw driver
Hammer
Pliers
Large socket assortment
Extentions for those sockets

Next, you will have to have the tools to remover the lower cover from the car and now remove it. With that out of the way all you have to do is place the screw driver at the edge of the expansion plug strike it with the hammer till it start to turn sideways. After that reach in with the pliers and lever the plug out.

Take the socket that fits best (I think I used a 1" socket) into the core plug and attach an extension to it, or if you have a core plug install kit use one of those. Lightly tap the plug into place making sure that you don't drive it to deep into the hole. If you do you will have to remove it and try the install again.

Does it sound easy? Thats because it is. The new units will come with the threaded hole in them for your WI install. We have found that there doesn't need to be an extension installed in the new core plugs because they are not as deep or thin as the OE units. This will make the install a snap with near zero increased costs to you guys.

The pictures below are in order of what I have typed above. I will be shipping these out to all our customers that ordered a WI kit from us as well as every future kit as well. Thanks and keep your eyes peeled for the videos when we have them posted up.

[ptperformance]

Alright guys we have a kit that we are going to produce for the MS3 for installing the kit into your car.

It will come with a pump mounting plate, bottle bracket, and injection point cup and bung. This will cost you additional but it will be well worth the time and money spent to make your install go quick and painless. Here are a few pictures of a kit installed on a local customers car.

Let me know if you would like to see a kit made for your car, thanks.

[ptperformance]

Water Injection - Take it from the top?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is the thread "Water Injection How To... great start to our WI everything thread!" stickied, and yet closed? Doesn't make any sense to me. So, at any rate, there is still a lot that I am confused on with this. I guess I'm just dumb. I've read some of the threads on this, and still can't get my head totally wrapped around this. So, here are some questions:

1. Where does the nozzle get installed? I think I see that it is on the IC cold air pipe. I have a ETS TMIC, which uses the stock cold air pipe. So, I thread it in that?

2. I saw some discussion about possibly putting it in the intake manifold. But, some questioned whether the spray would make it evenly to all cylinders. So, any consensus on that?

3. How big of a tank and where would I put the tank? I think I see some people put it in the trunk. I'd rather keep it in the engine bay, but maybe bad idea, heat. If in trunk, then gotta run the line to the front of car. How much trouble is that?

4. Although I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy the PT kit, just for comparision, how does the PT kit compare to the Devil's Own kit? Pluses/minuses?

5. Speaking of that, PT seems to be move into pure water over alcohol/water. Is this correct? If so, can you elaborate?

6. How is this controlled? I don't fully understand the differences in the options. What should I get?

7. I don't currently have any engine management. I'm thinking of the Cobb AP for my MS6, but don't have it currently. What impact might this make on what I should buy?

8. I understand that water injection can in theory decrease emissions and even improve gas mileage some. I feel a little guilty having only a race CAT, which doesn't have a NOx stage. So, if this can help reduce NOx, I'd be very happy.

9. Anything else I should know?

10. I'm so confused!

11. Help!

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Water Injection - Take it from the top? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why is the thread "Water Injection How To... great start to our WI everything thread!" stickied, and yet closed? Doesn't make any sense to me. So, at any rate, there is still a lot that I am confused on with this. I guess I'm just dumb. I've read some of the threads on this, and still can't get my head totally wrapped around this. So, here are some questions: 1. Where does the nozzle get installed? I think I see that it is on the IC cold air pipe. I have a ETS TMIC, which uses the stock cold air pipe. So, I thread it in that? 2. I saw some discussion about possibly putting it in the intake manifold. But, some questioned whether the spray would make it evenly to all cylinders. So, any consensus on that? 3. How big of a tank and where would I put the tank? I think I see some people put it in the trunk. I'd rather keep it in the engine bay, but maybe bad idea, heat. If in trunk, then gotta run the line to the front of car. How much trouble is that? 4. Although I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy the PT kit, just for comparision, how does the PT kit compare to the Devil's Own kit? Pluses/minuses? 5. Speaking of that, PT seems to be move into pure water over alcohol/water. Is this correct? If so, can you elaborate? 6. How is this controlled? I don't fully understand the differences in the options. What should I get? 7. I don't currently have any engine management. I'm thinking of the Cobb AP for my MS6, but don't have it currently. What impact might this make on what I should buy? 8. I understand that water injection can in theory decrease emissions and even improve gas mileage some. I feel a little guilty having only a race CAT, which doesn't have a NOx stage. So, if this can help reduce NOx, I'd be very happy. 9. Anything else I should know? 10. I'm so confused! 11. Help!

1. We will address this when we start testing, the proof is in the video that we will be posting up.

2. The intake manifold is the best location for our cars, its the manifold design that requires that you put the nozzle in there. We will have video of that as well.

3. Running the line is easy, mounting the tank is easy. There is room to mount it in both locations on the MS6. This is left up for the owner of the kit. Front of the car is always better just try to keep it out of the engine bay. Tank size depends on how much meth you plan on running. M1 will last 3 months on a 1 gallon tank. Two M10's will last about 4 minutes. Plan for the use and you will be very happy.

4. When I post the video I will let you make your assumptions based off that. I am going to say that there are simple reasons to buying our kit (control solenoid, 250 psi pump, V3 auto tune, ect) but the video will show why the bigger pump and control solenoid are needed.

5. The mix depends on how much additional fuel you need. If you stock turbo I would run a 20 meth 80 water mix. If you were SST/big turbo with full bolts on, I would run 80M to 20W mix. You need to mix your set up to "match" your bolt on's. Your EGT's and AFR's will normally determine the mix that you need to run. I will help anyone out with this if they need it.

6. Progressive is a controlled spray based on your user inputs (you determine when and how much get injected based on the settings on the control box). The base kit, is just on or off.... very easy and simple. The V3 kit is the SHIT!!! This will adjust over time, conditions, self tune, ect. A very easy to program kit that allows for the best of all WI combinations that you could come up with.

7. I would suspect that COBB would build a map for you if you have a tuner local that can do this. If not I would get a "race, and pump" gas MAP's built for your car and then run the WI when you are running the race gas map. We have tried this with another customers car and it worked wonders with no knock or fuel cut issues. NOW... not every car is created equal and it may not work for everyone, this would have to be a trial and error type of tune.

8. That depends on the mix that you are running and how agressive you have the WI to work with the car. It will keep the intake clean and that alone should help with the reduction of emissions over time. As for the "right now" clean air, don't see that its going to be that much of an impact.

9. There is lots you should know about WI, problem being is that a majority of it comes from running the kit on your car. With all the SRT4's that we have installed WI on we have found that one will run better with a different mix then the next one but both cars are very similar in bolt-on's.

No car will run the same as the next one with meth, this is just like tuning your car with an AP or the Pro Cobb unit (when it comes out) to get the most out of it. Don't just throw the unit on and expect it to add 100 HP. Tune it to meet your needs and better yet to meet the cars needs and you will be very impressed with the results.

10. Don't be, when you start to tune with the kit you will be more impresses with the results then you are confused.

11. Hope this helps.

[ptperformance]

Update on the nozzle location.....


WE ARE DONE!!!!

Here they are and you shouldn't need to run any o-ring with these. Just a small strip of PTFE tape on the nozzle and bingo bango your done. These mount very tight into the plug, so tight that I stripped out a nozzle before the expansion plug stripped. No worries about these coming loose over time.

I will be getting these put together with a how to on them for everyone that has ordered a WI kit. We will be including these with every kit "free of charge". Yes that says free. I have video I need to edit and post up for you guys as well here in just a little bit, stay tuned your going to be put into AWE with the results.

If you guys notice you get to keep your 90 degree into the nozzle still. This was a concern for some of you.

[aaronc7]

very kewl. if this was out before i did mine i might have got it. is there any distinct advantage of this vs just tapping right before the throttle body? no meth getting recirced into the intake?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 very kewl. if this was out before i did mine i might have got it. is there any distinct advantage of this vs just tapping right before the throttle body? no meth getting recirced into the intake?

this will GUARANTEE even distribution over all cylinders. and you will never have any recirc back into any of your other pipes.


PTP this looks SIIIIIIICKKKKKKK. im so happy with your progress on everything on this car. keep up the good work.

P.S. when r these shiping out?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 very kewl. if this was out before i did mine i might have got it. is there any distinct advantage of this vs just tapping right before the throttle body? no meth getting recirced into the intake?

Wait, we have side by side compairisons of the locations. This one is huge.

[fyrecrotch]

Mmmmm... where's that softcore car porn... erm install vid you mentioned earlier?

[booya620]

This is very sweet, nice work. Your gonna send these to everyone, even if the kit was already shipped out? I hope so, that means I don't need that cold pipe I picked up. It would free up some extra cash for the traction bar kit.

[jhershorin]

Would you be worried that it would get clogged with oil since these motors are prone to get oil all inside the intake manifold? I know its a bit of pressure coming out but oil is a pain in the ass.

[Speedn3]

John, will you be offering this peice for sale seperate from the WI kit?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes this will GUARANTEE even distribution over all cylinders. and you will never have any recirc back into any of your other pipes. PTP this looks SIIIIIIICKKKKKKK. im so happy with your progress on everything on this car. keep up the good work. P.S. when r these shiping out?

I want to get them shipped out Monday. If you look at the video you will see that the spray is running out the runners with out any pressure behind it. We took the time to build a jig with the spray and everything with pressure behind it but it wan not needed. You can see the spray as it comes out the runners with an open manifold. How freaking cool is that.

Originally Posted by fyrecrotch Mmmmm... where's that softcore car porn... erm install vid you mentioned earlier?

Its up, first post. Thanks.

Originally Posted by booya620 This is very sweet, nice work. Your gonna send these to everyone, even if the kit was already shipped out? I hope so, that means I don't need that cold pipe I picked up. It would free up some extra cash for the traction bar kit.

Every WI kit that was sold will be getting one of these in the mail. It will take all of 5 minutes to install your WI nozzle now. To cool!

Originally Posted by jhershorin Would you be worried that it would get clogged with oil since these motors are prone to get oil all inside the intake manifold? I know its a bit of pressure coming out but oil is a pain in the ass.

We are woried about that as well but in this case it will keep the bottom of the manifold clean as well. Think about it, if you get on the car with any regularity it will blow the oil off the bottom of the manifold. The oil will not clog the nozzle, it will only keep it well lubed for future use. I see nothing but win win for this set up.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Speedn3 John, will you be offering this peice for sale seperate from the WI kit?

Yes but I really feel bad for how much I want to charge for it. Let me think about this a bit and if I really feel like being a nice guy... I might put 100 of these together and you guys just send me a $1 or 2 to cover the shipping of the part. This is one of those things that I want to offer out there to all the MS owners, call it my goodwill if you want to.

[SSinstaller]

John, did you get my PM?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller John, did you get my PM?

Maybe, I have been doing 2 different sites tonight and still have 4 hours of homework. I will try to address the PM's either tonight or Friday. If its something urgent let me know, thanks.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Maybe, I have been doing 2 different sites tonight and still have 4 hours of homework. I will try to address the PM's either tonight or Friday. If its something urgent let me know, thanks.

Not urgent at all, just looking for a new price quote..

[LBV]

Great work John. I think I'll play it safe when the time comes for me and put some RTV around the outside edge of the new plug. Also, I've read on 1 of the other WI sites that they recommend putting some GOOP around the threads of the nozzle to better seal them (although the teflon tape you mention should do the same).

Edit: Devil's Own sez "do not use teflon tape on any fittings ... it is easy for teflon tape to get pulled into the system ..."
Snow Perforance sez "seal the nozzle into the nozzle holder using the included GOOP sealant. .."

[jhershorin]

I agree in theory this is a great idea but with the oil in the intake mani issues I would just be somewhat concerned. Oil cakes really easily and if you leave your car sitting for a while you could very well damage a nozzle with this placement.

Don't get me wrong. i am NOT hating at all becasue in theory this is an incredible idea in a perfect world where our manifolds stayed clean this is the BEST place. I just don't think its ideal because of our oil issues.

[superskaterxes]

john can u do a video of a nozzle in the cold pipe? and how it comes out the runners when sprayed under the same conditions

[MarkyMark]

I will paypal $20 for the plug right now. I'd get your kit if i didnt already have a SNOW kit from months ago.

[jhershorin]

Mark. You know better than this!

[aaronc7]

he just has some meat in his mouth and cant think straight

[Grim]

now i defiantly know i am getting your meth kit ptp.this is awesome!

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by jhershorin Mark. You know better than this!

jake, catch can solves the problem.....you are OVER thinking this!!!!

now lets make out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark now lets make out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

lol jake add this to the sig haha

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by LBV Great work John. I think I'll play it safe when the time comes for me and put some RTV around the outside edge of the new plug. Also, I've read on 1 of the other WI sites that they recommend putting some GOOP around the threads of the nozzle to better seal them (although the teflon tape you mention should do the same). Edit: Devil's Own sez "do not use teflon tape on any fittings ... it is easy for teflon tape to get pulled into the system ..." Snow Perforance sez "seal the nozzle into the nozzle holder using the included GOOP sealant. .."

The directions tell you to use RTV when you install the new plug. This insures that it will seal up "all the way". What you need is some plumbers putty, this would make the seal at the nozzle 100% leak proof, we will be putting that in the directions for install as well.

Originally Posted by jhershorin I agree in theory this is a great idea but with the oil in the intake mani issues I would just be somewhat concerned. Oil cakes really easily and if you leave your car sitting for a while you could very well damage a nozzle with this placement. Don't get me wrong. i am NOT hating at all becasue in theory this is an incredible idea in a perfect world where our manifolds stayed clean this is the BEST place. I just don't think its ideal because of our oil issues.

Catch can the system, problem fixed. So all I have to do is come out with a catch can for you guys to go along with this.

Originally Posted by superskaterxes john can u do a video of a nozzle in the cold pipe? and how it comes out the runners when sprayed under the same conditions

I have that video, its sad because you can not see any of the spray coming out of the runners, nothing nada zip. Its so bad that I even hooked up a blew blower to push the air out of the manifold, and then there was just a little bit that came out. I will post that video up here very soon for you to look at, don't expect much.

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark I will paypal $20 for the plug right now. I'd get your kit if i didnt already have a SNOW kit from months ago.

Mark, don't worry about it. I am going to get 25 of them put together this weekend and pretty much give them away. I would like to recover my time and money spend on this but for $1 a piece and it takes me all of 45 seconds to modify them... pretty much a lose lose deal even if I charged $5 a pop for them. It just makes our kit, that much better to purchace when you get the nozzle locator with it.

Originally Posted by Grim now i defiantly know i am getting your meth kit ptp.this is awesome!

Thanks, that was the idea behind it.

Now to all those that want these, I will be generous for a one time give away. I am not sure how many I am going to give away but I can tell you that we built these to give our kits a leg up on the competition. I am sure it will only be a matter of time before they start offering something similar, but we all know who originated the idea behind it.

Every PTP WI kits gets one of these for "FREE", that was the whole idea behind making this a reality.

Thanks for the great input from everyone on this idea.

[bf360]

hard to tell in the vid, does it distribute evenly?

[aaronc7]

just because it sprays through with no pressure behind it, when its off the car doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be all that much better once its on the engine with it running at full throttle? Saying "nothing sprays through at all when its mounted in the cold pipe" with it disconnected from the engine like this does not mean anything I don't think?

[aaronc7]

another question. Where is the boosted air temp sensor? at or around the throttle body? Would you want the meth before or after the booosted air temps sensor? I would think before so it knows you're getting colder air and could be advancing timing, etc

[SSinstaller]

the BAT sensor is integrated with the MAP sensor on the side of the IM, you can't spray after it unless your did separate jets in each runner..

[aaronc7]

rodge

[bombdotcom]

this i awesome! i wana get the meth kit but im not too too car savvy yet. still learning and doing all my own installs on the car. is this pretty easy?? im just not that great with eletrics. ive installed a boost gauge, and the pia downpipe, so im probably capable right?

[bombdotcom]

oh ya and how do u adjust the injection controller??? do i need a ems to do it? or is it manually with a knob or something? thanks

[ms3-87]

pm sent i need this part asap....i have an install date for next wed.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by bombdotcom this i awesome! i wana get the meth kit but im not too too car savvy yet. still learning and doing all my own installs on the car. is this pretty easy?? im just not that great with eletrics. ive installed a boost gauge, and the pia downpipe, so im probably capable right?

if u can install a boost gauge you can do this install. its literally identical haha

Originally Posted by bombdotcom oh ya and how do u adjust the injection controller??? do i need a ems to do it? or is it manually with a knob or something? thanks

yea its just a knob for start and full. u adjust it according to when it want it to start spraying and when it should spray full.

[superskaterxes]

hey guys,

i spoke to jordan today and he said that the oil issue def wont be a problem. with the 250PSI pump, you have enough pressure to overcome any kind of build up on the nozzle. im gona go ahead and put it in the freeze plug. way to go PTP!!!!

[babcockxmx]

just because of this im getting this asap

[Smoker6]

Nice! Just got back to the states and I have the Stage 3 WI kit waiting right here for me. Can't wait for the plug to come in so I can get this installed.