Bought an MSM

[mr_mazda329]

I always unplug my TPS for autocross. After I wrap up the season in BSP, I will be throwing in the 3.63's in. I bought a set back in June, but couldn't install them because it would take the car out of class. 200whp is definitely is enough power to drive the gears. MAF relocation is awesome. if you're not on there yet, check out Welcome to Mazda-speed

Here's my build thread too.
mr_mazda329's BSP Build Thread

I've done the comp mounts too and they help a lot with shifting, but the Miata roaster short shifter does a better job od getting rid of the horrible 2nd-3rd mis-shifts.

[Crarrs]

Another 3 months, another overdue update:

As I alluded to in the prior update, I ended up pulling all of the STX "good stuff" off of the MS3 to make me focus on the MSM. I had a hard time leaving that car behind for events just because I have a competitive personality, and knew I could show up to most events in Phoenix and finish top-15. I wasn't willing to wobble around in the MSM and learn what I needed to do to drive better when I knew I had another tool available to me that I was capable of using to better effect. So...I kicked the crutch out from under me, and made it so I didn't have a fast STX car anymore to force me to focus on learning the MSM and improving my driving. But enough about the MS3 in my Miata thread.

Next event was Dec 21st at Arizona Motorsports Park. I got stuck in the first run group, on a dusty course in 60 degree temps. I started the day by stiffening the front shocks to 1-1/2 turns (had been 3/4 in October), and left the rears at full soft. Tire pressures were 29F/28R. There wasn't much grip on the course to really tell what was going on, and the ambient temp made it hard to build heat in the tires. We only got 3 Comp runs due to site scheduling restrictions as well, so it wasn't a great morning for learning. I took some time until Time Only runs thinking about what was happening with the car, and what I wanted to do better. I figured that since I hadn't felt the car understeer on corner entry, I wasn't carrying enough entry speed. I immediately picked up a full second on my first time only run from the better grip of higher temps and cleaner course. After that, I managed to get one of the fast STR guys to ride with me and give me a few tips real-time. Very simply, I'm still trying to break my FWD bad habits, and I was braking too late into the corners, which made it a handful on the way out of the corner with the over-abrupt transition to throttle-on for corner exit. I picked up another second on my next Time Only run with that advice in mind. More to think about, more to focus on. Videos below.

Comp run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxl4aattALg

Time Only run; would've been even quicker, but drove too deep into the last corner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrtrbqOQL6g

I missed the January event, so the next event was Feb 7th. Better day for me; I ended up in the second run group, and it was an atypically warm February day (even for Phoenix...), and it was almost 90 degrees in the afternoon. I added another 1/4 turn to the front shocks to put them at 1-1/2 turns, and still left the rear end at full soft. Started off the tire pressures at 30F/27R. The balance felt great all day, and I bled the tires down after each run to keep it there. The first two runs felt "meh"; I coned the first one, and left a bit on the table for the second one. The third run was the best run I've had in well over a year. My notes that I wrote down immediately after said "Fucking PERFECT!". It was one of those runs where everything comes together, and I was ahead of the car for everything I was trying to do. I'm finally starting to figure out throttle-off turn-in, feel the rear end come around, and then catch the slide with a bit of throttle to put the car where I need it. I coned away the next run that was .04 quicker, but was more than happy with the learning that happened there. It got me 980 PAX in-class for SP street tire index. I picked up 4 tenths in time only, and ran another one slightly quicker with a cone.

Fastest comp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzPVHHwFXQ

Quickest clean time only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf2o4JfGc-4

Dirty time only run, fun camera angle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqWEMyS7gHU

I'm very happy with my own development to figure this car out. My overall PAX at the Feb event was 917, which ends up around 940 when you factor in street tires for an R-tire class. That's right around the bottom end of where I was PAXing the MS3 during 2013-14. Now I just need to keep driving the car better in regards to its strong suits and further break the FWD bad habits to keep getting quicker. I still know I'm slightly later than I could be getting on the throttle to exit corners. After I get over that, I'm going to need to learn to drive the car loose on corner exit, and trust that the grip of 225s will keep where in needs to be. I know the grip is there, I'm just not quite to the point of leaning on the car completely after the apex.

I bought a catless eBay downpipe in December (thanks for the recomendation @mr_mazda329), but it's still sitting in the garage. I'm waiting to hear back on some job things to determine where I'll be living before making emissions-related changes to the car. If the DP goes in, so will the 305cc injectors and second MazdaComp motor mount that have been in the garage for even longer.

[Crarrs]

I ran another event two weeks ago, but there isn't a whole lot to report. The car still feels super dialed-in with the setting from the two events prior, and I'm still working my way through understanding how to get the best out of it right out of the gate. It still takes me a couple runs to really get up to speed in this car; I picked up 1.9 seconds from first run to fourth run at this event, and then 2 hours later ran my last 3 TO runs all within 1 tenth of that best comp run. There was scheduling conflict with the Tucson region, so some of the really quick guys were at that event, but I managed to raw-time 12th overall, and PAXed 2nd in street tire.

I'm starting to build more confidence to push the car more at the exits, but have hit a bit of a wall because of the lack of throttle response right off the bottom, even with the TPS unplugged (see around 0:17 of the first video). I'd like to avoid having to downshift to 2nd at a place like that, but it's going to end up being a course-dependent issue I guess.

Comp run

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Time only run; AKA "I really wanted to nail a 31"

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I also got another set of Flatouts used from a guy in Phoenix. They're the bronze ones vs. the black ones I already had. I bought a bunch of paint from Summit and redid them a darker bronze with matte finish because I didn't like the goldish tone of the original color. I think they turned out pretty well. I'm going to end up putting a 205 of some flavor on them for daily use. I'm leaning towards the Dunlop DZ102s because they're so outrageously cheap right now ($71/tire and a rebate offer on a set of 4).

Next event will be the second week of April. I've got an outside chance of snagging a series trophy in street tire if I do well. 1st place has already been clinched, but we will see how well I can do. I'll be working towards being quick out of the gate for the Fall series for a shot at that title.

[Neverlift]

I know this may seem like asking for trouble, but you can live on the rev limiter. Redline is 500 rpm before a normal BP4W, and the MSM loves treating it like a poor mans 2 step. You are also making peak power @ 5500+ so you should have been in 2nd in the beginning of the run until you hit that turn @ 17sec, and then hit 3rd when the rest of the course opened up.

What RPM are you reaching full boost right now? Open DP, it will be around 3k RPMs which will definitely help with throttle response down low, but would also probably put you in a different class

[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by Neverlift I know this may seem like asking for trouble, but you can live on the rev limiter. Redline is 500 rpm before a normal BP4W, and the MSM loves treating it like a poor mans 2 step. You are also making peak power @ 5500+ so you should have been in 2nd in the beginning of the run until you hit that turn @ 17sec, and then hit 3rd when the rest of the course opened up. What RPM are you reaching full boost right now? Open DP, it will be around 3k RPMs which will definitely help with throttle response down low, but would also probably put you in a different class

I think I agree with you that holding second gear may have been better for that section. I hate that low redline with a passion because of the way the car scream through the last 1000 RPM towards it. There's no overrev to the powerband at all. I really wanted to rotate the rear of the car for the right turn at 0:17 to exit that corner on a straighter path, but didn't have the response for it in 3rd and ended up riding the front end hard until it pushed away on me getting down to the apex.

I'm hitting full boost somewhere around 3500, but there's still a perceptible lag from when the boost is there to when the ECU catches up and starts feeding it fuel. It's not even close to as bad as the OL/CL transition with the TPS connected, but it's still something you feel when transitioning to WOT anywhere south of 4500.

The car is currently in Street Prepared, so I've still got a ton of allowances I can throw at the car in this category (the MSM isn't legal in Street Touring, so it was in SP as soon as I put the intake on it). I'm still trying to move back to Phoenix, so I'm holding off on the DP and 305s (both SP-legal) until after I move there and get the car cleared for smog (AZ only does emissions checks in Phoenix and Tucson).

[Crarrs]

Spent a bit of money last week. Will be a couple weeks before I have the time to get this stuff on the car.

[mr_mazda329]

the gearing does suck. If you can, get the downpipe off ebay and get an o2 extender. Mine passed smog just fine here in vegas. Do they do sniffer checks out there or just plug in OBII?

But once you get the DP, you pick up a lot of mid range and you'll be able to stay in 3rd more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI2h4pH2XSk

[moonrider_99]

I just got a MSM, now I know exactly what parts to get!!

I will just change the fluids for now and since I had a great experience with Redline in my MS3 I was going to use Redline products in my MSM. It looks like you need a GL4 for the tranny, and GL5 for diff, am I right?

Transmission
MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?product=50304

Diff
75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?product=57904

Are these okay?

[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by moonrider_99 I just got a MSM, now I know exactly what parts to get!! I will just change the fluids for now and since I had a great experience with Redline in my MS3 I was going to use Redline products in my MSM. It looks like you need a GL4 for the tranny, and GL5 for diff, am I right? Transmission MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil Red Line Synthetic Oil - Gear Oil for Manual Transmissions - MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil Diff 75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil Red Line Synthetic Oil - Gear Oil for Differentials - 75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil Are these okay?

Those are exactly what I used last summer. No issues, and they're m.net approved. You might be able to get them shipped to you cheaper through Amazon.

If you're using my list as a starting point for mods, I'd recommend the cheaper CX Racing intercooler from eBay over the Mishimoto I used. The offset inlet/outlets will let you mount it higher, but it'll block more of the radiator than my setup. The reduced ground clearance was a compromise I was willing to make because of the ambient temps where I live.

Also, this will be worth checking out depending on your goals for the car. A good performance set of coilovers using the shocks that are already on your car.

[moonrider_99]

Originally Posted by Crarrs Those are exactly what I used last summer. No issues, and they're m.net approved. You might be able to get them shipped to you cheaper through Amazon. If you're using my list as a starting point for mods, I'd recommend the cheaper CX Racing intercooler from eBay over the Mishimoto I used. The offset inlet/outlets will let you mount it higher, but it'll block more of the radiator than my setup. The reduced ground clearance was a compromise I was willing to make because of the ambient temps where I live. Also, this will be worth checking out depending on your goals for the car. A good performance set of coilovers using the shocks that are already on your car.

Thanks for the information, sounds like you figured everything out already- much appreciated. I actually found what looks like a full turboback on my car. Let me know what you think I should do, check my other thread please, I don't want to hi-jack this one.

[Crarrs]

Had another very successful weekend as far as mods go. I had those DZ102s mounted on my bronze Flatouts, and then got into the real work on Friday afternoon.



The front brakes went on very easily. New rotors and pads should feel good after I flush/bleed/bed.



Before starting the brakes, I had applied PB Blaster to the downpipe hardware, in optimistic vision that I would install the eBay downpipe and driver's side MS engine mount. I used the old machinist's trick of hitting the studs with a bunch of heat from a MAPP torch, and then liberally spraying on the PB so it gets drawn into the threads while the metal is cooling to do its work better. I decided the last thing I was going to do before calling it a night on Friday was to try and crack the hardware loose. Imagine my excitement when all of the hardware came off without an extreme amount of effort, and NOT breaking anything.



Saturday morning's job was going to be removing the downpipe and swapping the driver's side engine mount. This all started out well enough; the downpipe came right out, and I got creative with some wood and the spare tire jack to make clearance for the driver's mount after pulling the passenger one out.



The stock driver's mount had started to tear pretty significantly, so it was time to replace this regardless of the upgrade.





After reinstalling the driver's side mount, this is about where things went to shit. I put the driver's side mount in, and the put the passenger side mount in, and then tried (repeatedly) to get the engine to drop both mounts in where they needed to be. After at least an hour and a half of fiddling with both jacks while repeatedly trying to lower the engine in, and not being able to get the driver's side mount stud to hit the lower hole in the subframe, I finally found the right piece of information I needed.

To get this done quickly and efficiently, your steps should be as follow:
Remove downpipe
Remove passenger side mount
Remove driver's side mount
Install driver's side mount (completely)
Install passenger side mount
Have a beer

There's no chance in hell that everything will line up if you just try to drop the engine back down with both mounts installed. No combination of wiggling or tilting the engine from side to side will work. There's acres of room to play with on the passenger side (comparatively), so that mount should go back in at the end due to the extra leeway you have for installation. It literally took me a total of 10 minutes to get everything in once I started on this plan (remove passenger mount, drop engine down, driver's mount lines up first try, lift engine, install passenger mount, drop engine down).

The engine mount fiasco pretty much wore me out for the day by 3PM Saturday, so I called it day for the garage and just picked up the defoulers to space the O2 sensor in the downpipe to prep for Sunday morning.

The worst of what I had to do today was drill the defoulers out to fit the sensor. It took me at least 40 minutes to get through both. It probably would have taken less time if I had access to a drill press. Use lots of cutting oil for this, or just buy one of the right diameter ahead of time on eBay versus adapting the spark plug ones from your FLAPS. The downpipe went in easily enough at this point.



Worth noting, you'll need to slide the P-clamp on the O2 sensor harness to get it to interface with the bracket on the eBay downpipe. If you place it just down the harness (towards the sensor) past the factory zipties, it will get the harness to run with the same tension and clearance as it had orignally (if you're on the factory midpipe).





After I got everything in, it was time for the first start to check for leaks. The rear gasket on the downpipe started leaking immediately, just at idle. Don't waste your time on the bullshit gasket that comes with the eBay part. It blew apart on the top and bottom where there's no hardware to clamp it.





I put the stock crush gasket in, and it's holding for now. I'm going to order another one because I'm not counting on this one to survive being crushed twice.

I started to install the bronze wheels to close things out this afternoon and noticed that they didn't mount the directional tires correctly; I've got 3 rights and 1 left right now as currently mounted. I'll have to bring one wheel back to have the tire flipped next weekend. But the car isn't really ready to go anywhere yet anyway. I'm going to put the rear brake parts on next Friday, and do a flush and bleed so I can bed all four corners in at the same time.

[Crarrs]

These things are supposed hold air inside them. They sucked at their jobs today.





The bright side of stuff today:

The car rips with the downpipe; way more responsive and it sounds awesome.
The brakes started feeling good about a third of the way through bedding the pads in; that's when I noticed the tire going low.
I didn't fuck up my wheel from the flat tire; I noticed the car started feeling a little bit sloppy and caught it before all of the air was gone.
Really happy with the look of the bronze wheels against the Ti Grey.
I got a good answer to a question I'd had for a while; the spare jack will actually fit under the car when there is a flat tire.

I didn't think there'd be an issue fitting these 205s to an 8-inch wheel, I've seen tons of cars running this combination before, but the flat was caused by debeading. I'll get the tire refitted tomorrow and just monitor the pressure closely. Is that what the hellaflush lifestyle is all about? I'll change the stock spring clamps to worm-drive clamps tomorrow as well. After all of that is squared away and I get through bedding the brake pads in, I'll get some video of the car with the downpipe. For now, I don't think I'm going to be looking for an axleback anymore. It's plently loud for me now. Bonus pics below.

[Code Monkey]

Check the tire carefully inside, when I debeaded mine, it was fucked inside.

You know you are not supposed to use a spare in the rear on a Miata? When you blow a rear tire, you swap a good tire from the front to the rear, and put the donut in the front....

[Neverlift]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey You know you are not supposed to use a spare in the rear on a Miata?

Constant locking and unlocking of the diff when getting on and off the throttle. Feels weird, but it looks like he just threw it on to get away from the shoulder to a safer location. I wouldn't blame him if that was the case.

[Crarrs]

I'll plead ignorance. I wasn't aware and drove the car about 6 miles home. Hopefully I didn't fry the Torsen.

[Neverlift]

Originally Posted by Crarrs I'll plead ignorance. I wasn't aware and drove the car about 6 miles home. Hopefully I didn't fry the Torsen.

It's mechanical, I doubt the diff cared all that much. Its boiling the fluid in the diff I would worry about in this instance. That's what will kill it.

[Crarrs]

Just got back from Discount Tire, they said the bead is torn up and the tire is done. They're stepping up and buying me a new tire, which shocked me since I bought the tire from Tire Rack, and the specs say it shouldn't be mounted on anything wider than a 7.5". Manager said he assumed his guys did the damage. I did drive less than 10 miles before it happened, but I didn't have to tell him that or plead my case, he just offered. Big praise to them for that, but I'm not sure I would've received the same treatment if I hadn't just been there on Tuesday to get the other tire flipped.

[Crarrs]

Video with exhaust sound after the downpipe install. It's not quite as loud as it seems, the mic was taped to the bumper about 6-8 inches from the exhaust pipe. I'll need to get an exterior drive-by video to better represent the actual volume in addition to the tone.

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I'm hitting boost cut in 4th gear now, right around where I think peak torque is. The MBC has been turned all the way down since I put the downpipe in, so it's allowed a lot more exhaust flow. I'll deal with it for now, but the 305cc injectors and boost cut bypass are in my future. No plans yet to port the wastegate. Pulling the turbo seems like a colossal pain in the dick that I want no part of right now, at least not since we start seeing consistent 100+ temps this week. That might be a job I'm ready for in October. The stock exhaust gasket is still maintaining the seal at the tail end of the downpipe, but I've got a sheet of gasket material ready to go if it starts leaking. Another bonus of the catless downpipe is much less heat coming through the trans tunnel and warming my leg up. Every little bit of heat coming into the car makes a difference when it's 110 outside, so I'll be appreciating that more in a month.

The 205 DZ102s feel great on the car. It feels much more nimble and lighter on its feet. There isn't much appreciable loss in lateral grip vs the 225 RS3s at street speeds, but I'm sure that would be very different if comparing when hot. And the car is riding better with the taller sidewall that isn't as stiff as the RS3s. Very happy with these tires so far. Good choice for a street-driven car IMO.

To conclude the positive stuff, I'm also very happy with the drivetrain after having a chance to drive the car for a couple weeks with both MazdaComp motor mounts installed. I've seen people complaining about how much vibration they transmit, but I don't feel anything unruly at all. Having a JBR 88 RMM in my MS3 was much worse than these mounts are, and it's not even as bad as the CPE 75 RMM + CS Trans Insert. Shifting is improved as well. Does this have anything to do with the MSM being the heaviest of the NA/NB cars? No clue. But I'm happy with them.

[Crarrs]

Another long update full of odd-and-ends that have made the car better to drive.

After installing the downpipe in May, I had been getting boost cut. Once temperatures went up to be routinely over 105, the car wasn't holding enough boost to hit the cut anymore. But I did know it would be a problem when fall rolls around. In June, I bought a package of the 600 finest Chinese resistors I could find on eBay and eliminated the factory boost cut. At the same time, I deleted the stock boost control solenoid to clean up the engine bay a bit.

I've had a couple sets of the green top 305cc injectors kicking around my house for a while. I had them cleaned and rebuilt by a forum member over on MiataTurbo back in April. He's semi-local to me in Phoenix, so it was simpler than shipping them off to any of the other businesses that perform that work. It turned out that one of the 8 injectors I had was bad, so now I've got 1 set for my car and 3 spares instead of a full set to sell. That's forum parts buying I guess. Anyway, I decided to put those injectors in at the end of July. I changed the fuel filter at the same time. Other than the How-To I found on Mazda-Speed not mentioning the two longitudinal bolts behind the throttle body, the job was easy.



The change in driveability with these injectors is drastic. I ran the car for about 100 miles with the TPS plugged back in just to keep an eye out for new CELs, and had no issues. The car was actually somewhat driveable at part throttle with the TPS plugged in. After the 100 miles, I uplugged the TPS to keep the car in open loop and the powerband is unbelievable now. The way the car pulls through from 3500 to 4500 is awesome. The top end isn't changed much (yet). I'll be turning up the boost once the temperatures cool off, and that should take the car to the next level.

Ever since doing the work on the fuel system, I've had a strong gas smell in my garage in the evenings after the car has been parked following my commute, similar to another thread over on ClubRoadster. I looked over my work, and there isn't a leak anywhere. It has been extremely hot here since then (highs over 115 more often than not for 2 of the last 3 weeks). I'm just going to tack it up to the heat for now, but will be looking at the evap canister when I get a chance.

Last weekend, I decided to tackle a refresh of the suspension. As you can see from the weather, I picked an outstanding weekend to do this.



I had picked up a set of FCM 36/46 bump stops from the forum for cheap. This was before the vast amounts of knowledge started springing from the Budget Bilstein thread. I picked up a full set of new OEM isolators/bushings to replace at the same time. Knowing that I'd need another pair of the 36mm bump stops for my NB Konis (at least, that's the way the kit is sold on Goodwin), I got a pair of the Swank Force Racing bump stops from Summit to cut them down.





My car is now running on what I will call the Fat Swank Motor Racing bump stop setup.



At the same time, I also installed a new downpipe gasket with a fair amount of copper RTV. The OEM crush gasket wasn't leaking, but I didn't trust it and wanted something new in place for when I really start hammering on the car. I also changed out the diff oil on the advice of some others after I drove the car with the donut spare on the rear axle. The old stuff didn't smell burnt, but it came out more or less black. Feels like a worthwhile maintenance item for $15.

This all would've been a straightforward job done by lunch, but I ran into a self-made problem on the left rear shock. Thanks to the access restrictions caused by the fuel filler neck, I stripped the front nut for the top mount and had to spend a couple hours cutting, drilling, and hammering to get the nut off the mount. I tried to avoid damaging the mount itself, but I did end up cutting into the stud during my hack-a-thon to get the thing off.





I replaced the mount with a new one this weekend, so it's all back together with fresh rubber and bump stops. The fall autocross season starts back up in a month, and the car is ready to go. All I'll need to do is swap the black wheels with the RS3s back onto the car. Driving impressions with the new bumpstops installed will be forthcoming.

[Neverlift]

Round off the wastegate inlet from a 90 degree angle (like it is now), and enlarge the flapper hole to meet the actual size of the flapper (or replace with a bigger used valve) to eliminate creep from the DP.

[Crarrs]

I've had two autocross events with the new group of summer mods on the car:

Stoptech Street Performance brake pads front and rear
eBay catless downpipe
305cc injectors
Shortened stiffer bump stops

The September event felt like a bit of a throwaway, as I was still trying to get a feel for the car's behavior at the limit. It was also around 110 degrees out the whole day, so grip levels were way down on the skidpad. I didn't feel very comfortable really attacking corners, but started to get a handle on the car towards the end of the day. I was about 8 tenths off the leader in street tire during comp runs. The grip level was down in the later session when I ran time only, but I still managed to go a bit quicker.

Comp - 60.793

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TO - 60.609

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This past weekend, I tried paying even closer attention to what the car was doing. It was an abnormally warm October day, and the high temperature was 103. The run groups were smaller than the September event, so I ran earlier in the day than the month prior. I had a bit more confidence and feel from the setup this weekend, so I was able to push a bit harder while figuring out what the car was doing under me. The car rotates very well in steady state, but once I apply the slightest bit of additional throttle to start corner exit, the car starts oversteering. I ran my comp session maintaining pressures at 30/27, but tried bleeding the front down to run 28/27 for time only to see how it changed the behavior of the car. It seemed to slightly improve the stability, but that also could have been to a cleaner course at the end of the day combined with better line selection after watching people run while I worked. I got killed by over a second in comp runs by an STI because he was able to stomp his way out of the 4 tight turnarounds in this month's course.

Comp - 64.551

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TO - 64.145

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I'm currently scratching my head quite a bit to decide which direction I want to go to try and get rid of the throttle-on oversteer the car has developed. Right now, I'm thinking that the slight bit of extra suspension travel allowed by shortening the bump stops is causing more toe out than before when the suspension is loaded up. I'm still running the same alignment from last year (quoted below for reference).

Originally Posted by Crarrs Front -1.5 camber 4.5 caster 1/16" total toe in Rear -1.7 camber 1/16" total toe in

I do believe that the Racing Beat 1-1/4" front sway bar will probably be too drastic of a change. I'm toying with the idea of disconnecting the rear bar for a session to see how the car feels, but I think that will probably be too far in the wrong direction as well. I've already got more camber dialed into the rear than the front, so the easy fix would probably be to add just a bit more rear toe in. There's also the option of the 5x Racing rear sway bar, which is the same diameter as the stock MSM bar, but 3-way adjustable between slightly softer, equal to, and slightly stiffer than the stock bar. I've got a 2-day autocross event this weekend, so I'll talk to some people about my setup and see what they think before I make any changes. That is...if it doesn't rain this weekend and make any subjective data useless.

[moonrider_99]

My MSM is on stock suspension and with the additional power it is also very tail happy on throttle. I'm starting to find that being gentle with the throttle helps a little although it's hard to modulate with the boost rush above 5k. In retrospective, compared to my MS3, the MSM seems to prefer a gentle touch in auto-x as opposed to man handling the former.
keep up the good work!

[Crarrs]

Been a long while since an update, so here's my summary to close out 2015.

The weekend after my prior update (after dealing with lots of oversteer issues), I ran a 2-day event at Marana airport with the Tucson region on October 17th and 18th. The temperatures were about 20 degrees cooler and I dropped my target pressures from 29F/27R to 27F/25R for the Saturday event to try and gain some more grip. The course was a totally green in the morning because it rained heavily overnight prior to the event, and there were some puddles present on the course up through the time course walks ended. The course was pretty much dry by the time the event started, and totally dry when my run group rolled around. The car immediately felt better at the lower pressures, and the tires seemed to build heat quicker. I was able to drive forward out of corners hard on the throttle without significant oversteer.

It was more of the same on Sunday. The car still felt very solid on corner exit, and I was pushing hard with confidence in most of the corners. I did expose some instability when trying to really flick the car quickly through transitions like a Chicago box or narrow-spaced slalom, but the car felt very good otherwise.

Saturday

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Sunday

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The next event was November 15th back in Phoenix on the Bondurant School Skidpad. This pad was recently resurfaced over the summer and had gained a reputation for being very slick from the 1 event that happened there this summer. On my first run, I nearly spun the car turning into the first slalom with full-blown wheelspin in second gear, and then DNF'd at the final slalom with another big rear slide. I calmed down on my second run just to get something clean on the board, and then some rain clouds that had been threatening just started dumping down for the rest of the day. The rest of my run group and the following ones were worthless. The resurfacing of the asphalt wasn't so much new asphalt as it was a re-seal, and it wasn't letting the water permeate the pavement at all, so it was more like driving on water that was on top of asphalt rather than just wet pavement. I couldn't give the car more that 50% throttle in 2nd gear without completely blowing the tires off it, so didn't learn much. No videos from that event because I didn't feel like it was worth my time to upload what I had.

The final event of the year was again at the Bondurant School Skidpad on December 6th. The surface was better than it had been in November, but still not nearly as good as the others I've raced on this fall. I had minor issues with corner exit power oversteer in one specific corner on the course, but I'm willing to tack that up to the surface, as that location on the course was noticeably slicker than the rest even during course walks. All in all, a good performance, but I ended up finishing the fall series in 2nd place again.

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YouTube Short

Final thoughts on the car for this year.

The shorter bump stops definitely helped the handling of the car, as it let the shocks move through more of their travel to do their job rather than upsetting the car with the rapid change in spring rate. The rear tires rub over big bumps when I've got a passenger and a full trunk, but that's only with the 225s when I'm on the highway headed across the desert to events. It hasn't been an issue around town or during autocross. And there's no rubbing issues at all on the 205 street tires. I'm going to try and get a mild roll done on the rear fenders to correct that issue.

To try and tame the oversteer, I went looking for a used Racing Beat 1.125" front sway bar locally. None of the locals had one of those, but I did manage to get the bigger 1.25" bar with the mounting brace blocks for cheap. That will be on the car in time for the January event.

I'm very happy with the throttle response that the downpipe and bigger injectors added to the car. I don't think I'll be changing anything power-wise on the car for next year as it's working very well as-is from that perspective.

[Crarrs]

Installed the 1.25" Racing Beat front sway bar this week. It was a much bigger pain than anticipated because there's very limited clearance between the cold side intercooler pipe and the passenger side bushing bracket. I ended up having to pull the bumper and cold side piping to get enough room pull the old bar out. Putting the new bar in was even worse, since Racing Beat bushing brackets are much bigger than the standard "strap" style, and I needed to reposition the piping a few times to get the clearance I needed, which still isn't much.





I paired the front bar with a set of 949 adjustable end links, and I replaced the OE bushings for the rear sway bar with some urethane ones at the same time. I wasn't able to make it to autocross this weekend, so determining the true affects will have to wait until next month.

[mr_mazda329]

You'll love the addition of the new FSB. I have the 1.125" bar. The car will be less dicey and quicker turn-in. Did you get the beef up mount blocks or the FSB chassis mount?

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[hermz]

Great thread man. Really appreciate all the detail and vids you have shared.

I've long wanted an MSM (we call them the MX-5 SE down here) as a daily and casual track toy. Unfortunately I test drove one a few weeks backs for the first time and at 6'2 I just don't fit with the roof on; at least not comfortably enough to DD. I found the low-end response to be pretty underwhelming too. Both things that can be fixed or improved upon easily enough, I know, but it was off-putting.

This thread has me strongly reconsidering getting one.

[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 You'll love the addition of the new FSB. I have the 1.125" bar. The car will be less dicey and quicker turn-in. Did you get the beef up mount blocks or the FSB chassis mount? Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

I got the mount blocks with the bar from the prior owner. I've seen photos of people fitting the full cross brace in an MSM, but with the issues I had squeezing the charge pipe in there, I don't see how it would work. It's a moot point for me anyway, since the cross brace isn't SP-legal.

[Crarrs]

First event with the bigger front sway bar had mixed results. I ran the first two runs of the day with my prior go-to tire pressures of 27F/25R to facilitate evaluation of the changes to the balance. The car was definitely easier to control in tighter slaloms, and the Phoenix region actually had a Chicago box (the exact problem area I wanted to fix from Tucson last year) for the first time I could remember for years. Flicking through transitions, I was able to be very aggressive with the steering wheel, and the car just stayed planted. The car definitely picked up a bit of mid-corner understeer in longer corners, right at the point when the suspension settled after turn-in. I meant to drop the front pressure 2 psi for my third comp run, but got distracted talking setup with the guy I bought the bar from.

I dropped the front pressure down to put me at 25F/25R for time only runs at the end of the day, and the car felt absolutely perfect. The mid-corner understeer was gone, and the transitional grip was still there. I'll be back at it again a week from today at the slicker surface of AMP. Hopefully the setup path holds true there as well.

No video from comp runs, as the last time I used the camera was last year, and I'd forgotten to put the card back in. I figured that out between run groups, and got great video of the low afternoon sun in Time Only.

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YouTube Short

[mr_mazda329]

Nice. You'll want to put some anti-walk pipe collars on to keep the bar from shifting. What alignment specs are you running and also, are you lowered? Still running rear swaybar?

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[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Nice. You'll want to put some anti-walk pipe collars on to keep the bar from shifting. What alignment specs are you running and also, are you lowered? Still running rear swaybar? Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

Alignment specs are pretty mild, since I still considered the car to be very dual-duty when I had it done a year and a half ago. I'm due for another one since I've been bouncing the car around, and the steering wheel is *just* offset a perceptible amount when tracking straight. I'll be looking to get more camber on both ends of the car, and zero the front toe as a reference point to go for some toe out at events. I'm going to keep the rear toe where it is to keep exit oversteer in check.

Front
-1.5 camber
4.5 caster
1/16" total toe in

Rear
-1.7 camber
1/16" total toe in

The car is lowered on the Ground Control coilover kit, with 375F/250R spring rates. Ride height (from memory) is 4.25F/4.50R. Again, was going for dual-duty when I bought these. Word from Goodwin Racing is that I'd need to revalve to the shocks to go for stiffer spring rates. I'd probably just go for a Xida or Fat Cat coilover setup rather than revalving shocks and buying new springs, if it got that far. I've still got the stock 14mm MSM sway bar on the rear.

Things are progressing, and I'm still trying to keep changes small. The biggest impediment to the car going quicker is still me, so I'm happy to continue developing myself before tossing big bucks at it. At the last event, top PAX was set by a 1.6L STS car on 195s, and he was 2 seconds quicker than me on raw time. I've still got tons of time to gain behind the wheel at this point.

[mr_mazda329]

Definitely always room for improvement. Since you are lowered, I'd ditch those old school Miata.net alignment specs and run Emilio's dual duty alignment. They target more camber up front than the rear and run max caster (5.5° ish). I tend to run some toe out up front.

Have you gone out and taken your tire temps right after your runs? Seems like 25psi is a bit low.

I'm usually at 37f 35r on my toyo ra1s.

My current specs.

Front
2.5
1/16 out
5.6 caster

Rear
2.2/3
1/16 in.

I'm on 450/336 rates on my ohlins. May bump to 500. I'm about a half in higher ride height.

The car was killer in BSP. I haven't autox since July down here in Tucson. The club seemed super uptight. Felt like a national styled event of seriousness. Lol.



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Ive been doing more HPDE events lately. How mine sits as of now



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[Code Monkey]

How do you like the Blackbird spoiler?

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey How do you like the Blackbird spoiler?

I absolutely love it. Definitely a great mod to add when you get your mechanical grip sorted out. I knocked two seconds off my personal best at the local track and a second off at Streets of Willow. I'm sure I would have dropped more time at SoW if I wasn't running that super high angle of attack on the spoiler. Was around 48°. Should have been at 30°. But for low speed stuff like autox, it still helps out.

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[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 I'm usually at 37f 35r on my toyo ra1s. My current specs. Front 2.5 1/16 out 5.6 caster Rear 2.2/3 1/16 in.

That's way too high for my car. I tried 32F/32R over a year ago when I first got this set of tires, and it was way too high. Every time I've dropped pressure a step, the car has gained grip. With the high pressures, it was the worst of both worlds for me. I didn't have any grip, and the tires wouldn't load up enough during a run to build heat for the next one. That hasn't been a problem since I dropped pressures into the mid-20s. I don't own a pyrometer to check tire temps, though. That's just what I've noticed driving the car and adjusting pressures.

Those are just about the alignment specs I'll be shooting for when I get one done. With that camber split, we will see if that leads me to disconnecting the rear sway bar as alluded to in the 949 setup guide.

[mr_mazda329]

Disconnecting the rear bar had adverse effects with those specs. I do not recommend.

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