Turbo Seal Failure/ Smoke from Exhaust Pipe: Mazda Technical Bulletin

[Agitated C-X-7 Owner]

*Official* TSB from Mazda regarding smoking Turbos
SMOKE FROM TAIL PIPES AFTER PROLONGED IDLE PERIODS

Applicable Models

Model Starting S/N Ending S/N Model Spec CX7 2007-2008 000001 209008 P/D BEFORE 2/15/2008 MAZDA6 2006-2007 000001 999999 ALL MAZDASPEED6 MAZDA3 2007-2008 000001 880368 P/D BEFORE 2/6/2008 Related Category/Subcategory/Symptoms

ENGINE / MECHANICAL / WHITE SMOKE,BLUE SMOKE
ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / EXCESSIVE OIL CONSUMPTION
ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / WHITE SMOKE,BLUE SMOKE
ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / BLACK SMOKE
ENGINE / MECHANICAL / EXCESSIVE OIL CONSUMPTION

MTOL - 5505 Dealer Repair Information

Symptom and Conditions


Applicable Model(s) VINS

CX-7 JM3ER ****8* 209008 Produced before 2/15/08
MAZDASPEED6 ALL ALL
MAZDASPEED3 JM1BK ****8* 880368 Produced before 2/6/08

Some customers may experience white/blue smoke from their exhaust pipes
after prolonged idle periods and/or while driving in traffic at very
slow speeds.

This condition may be the result of the turbo's oil supply not being
able to adequately drain out of the turbo during long idle periods.

Vehicles having this concern should be diagnosed using the following diagnostics procedure.
Repair Procedure


1. Confirm that the proper maintenance intervals have been performed.

2. With the engine at normal operating temperature, allow it to idle
for an extended idle period.

Caution:
Closely monitor the engine coolant to the assure the engine does not Overheat.

3. If smoke from the exhaust is present after the extended idle period,
take before pictures of the smoke, then change the oil and filter
using 5W/40 (synthetic). After the oil change, in order to burn off
the oil that remains in the exhaust system, perform the following:
start the engine, check for oil leaks, then let it idle for 10
minutes, after the 10 minute idle period, increase the RPMs to 3000
for 1 minute, repeat idle test to confirm that no smoke returns.

A: If the smoke returns, contact the Technical Assistance Hotline
(Select option #2 for Major Assembly Authorization) with the oil
change history information, to attain an authorization for a turbo
replacement.

B: If smoke DOES NOT RETURN after the repeat idle test, NO other repairs
are to be performed at this time. Explain to the customer that MAZDA
is currently working on an improved positive crankcase valve (PCV)
system to reduce the engine crankcase pressures to allow the turbo's
oil supply to drain from the turbocharger more efficiently This fix
will be available approximately within 90 days and at that time the
oil will be changed back to 5W-30 and the improved PCV system will be
installed

[triplejumper18]

Repost. Go back to the CX-7 issues and troubleshooting section and you'll see the same damn thing in the first thread.

[Agitated C-X-7 Owner]

I reposted the Technical Bulletin to be on the top of this forum and because the other forum just has the members arguing about taking off from the drive way with full throttle. That does not discuss the issue at all.

I have a 2009 Mazda CX-7 (2.3 L Turbo) that I purchased New. At 25,000 Miles I noticed that the white smoke coming from the exhaust pipe during city driving conditions (Long Idle periods waiting for lights to turn color). I found the Technical Bulletin online and changed the oil to 5W-40. The white smoke stopped until 3,000 miles later it began again. I then took the CX-7 into the dealership for the 30K service package and asked them to investigate the Technical Bulletin that I found. They checked it and got the car to smoke. I got the turbo replaced at 30,000 Miles for free but it cost me $300.00 for the 30K service. I performed all oil changes and kept records which the dealership had asked for. I did not have a problem with the fact that I did all my own maintenance with diligent records.

[Agitated C-X-7 Owner]

After a few months of researching this issue on other forums and reading the non OEM PCV system fixes for the CX7 Turbo issues. I believe I found what the underlining issue is that is causing the turbo seal failures to occur.

The root cause of this failure is the fact that at idle conditions, the crank case pressure of the engine increases due to air being sucked in through the PCV system. The increased crankcase pressure acts as a restriction to the oil return from the turbo. This causes oil levels to increase in the turbo until the level gets high enough to begin to push against the turbo seals. This repeated situation causes the turbo oil seals to eventually fail and allow oil to bypass it to the exhaust piping (Hot) which causes the white smoke to be created.

This does not happen during turbo boosting (Non Idle Conditions) because the amount of air flowing through the intake is high enough that it causes a bernoulli tube effect onto the PCV pipe. This means that the intake flow causes the pressure of the intake to be lower than the pressure of the crankcase which causes the crankcase to be vented to the intake and thus the crankcase pressure is not allowed to increase because it is vented.

This is the reason why the PCV pipe is 3/4" ID. PCV pipe ID's are typically 1/3 the size or smaller for non turbo charged engines.

There are two non OEM fixes: 1.) Noon Bolt and 2.) PTP Pill.

These fixes do not fix the high crankcase pressure condition occuring at idle. They only alieve the issue. The noon bolt fix takes the oil return bolt from the turbo and increases the orifice size by drilling a bigger hole to allow more oil to return to the engine block. The PTP Pill is an orifice that is put into the PCV pipe. This restricts the amount of air that is sucked into the crankcase however, it is not sized appropriately for the boosting operation and can actually cause the high crankcase issue in the boosting engine operation instead of idling.

The problem lies with the fact that our engines use an ingestive low pressure PCV system which takes Blow-By Oil and Contaminants (Hydrocarbons,Carbon Dioxide, others) and puts it back into the combustion process. This is the main reason why oil catch can systems are installed on our engines to reduce/eliminate this from getting into the engine. Allowing the excessive oil and contaminates back into the engine causes the following:

Reduced spark plug life • Fouled or damaged turbocharger or aftercooler • Reduced detonation margin, engine detonation = damaged pistons • Reduced load capability and operation • Reduced efficiency • Reduced component life.

The need for a better PCV system in our engines is very important for the reliability and elimination of future turbo seal failures that are costly.

Has anybody tired any other methods for modfiying the PCV system?

[smitty5788]

do you think this is new info to anyone?

[Agitated C-X-7 Owner]

I know that this is not new information to everyone but I was trying to get the information gathered in one place so someone new to the issues does not have to search google endlessly for hours to try to come up with all this information. Also, if this is not new information, then why does there exist a true fix for this issue?

I still would like to know if anyone has tried to use solely a breather filter (Atmospheric Crankcase Venting) or if a series of check valves were added to the current PCV system?

Maybe a Combination of a Breather filter with check valves would allow for proper venting and operation without affecting check engine lights?

Any thoughts?

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Agitated C-X-7 Owner Any thoughts?

I have a thought, but I would have to label this thread "NSFW" to post it.

[Raider]

Dude, get the catch can that I sent you the link to. Collect the crap that goes into the intake and eventually into the turbo that spews the oil.

[Raider]

New tsb. http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...38/#post750426

[phimon]

Originally Posted by Raider Dude, get the catch can that I sent you the link to. Collect the crap that goes into the intake and eventually into the turbo that spews the oil.

Newbie... Raider I can't find the link to the catch can and have this same problem.
Thanks,
Phil

[Raider]

Well, the thread is in the for sale section of VIP where people have bought them. Donate $10 to the forum, you will get access.

his official website is here:
Home - Performance Automotive Engineering



Order the Speed 6 kit.

[dokey27]

Hey All,
Just wanted to let you know that as of June 2011, Mazda Canada is considering the turbo smoking after idle problem a recall. The Mazda cause code: SSP84. The FP part number is: L3Y1-13-S80B. The description is Ventilation Kit. The recall covers a larger section of production dates and up to 140,000km or i think, 7 years...need to check that. So good news. (Mazda doesnt cover this, if there have been any changes to the turbo.) Hopefully this problem is fixed...Fingers crossed!

[TonyN]

the US market is SOL?

[Raider]

Nope. We have a tsb for it too.,just install an occ to collect the crap though. Fixed us.

[queenfan]

Hi all. I have a 2007 CX-7. On Friday, I was stuck in a 5 hour traffic jam.
Two weeks earlier, my timing chain had been replaced under the powertrain warranty. After this, my engine began whining whenever I accelerated. Just a bit, but enough to be annoying.
So this brings us back to Friday. Heading out to the shuttle launch, I had a few times where I would accelerate heavily and the whining would get worse and my car seemed like she had an engine powered by two hamsters on a little wheel. Then, the traffic jam. After that, any time I tried to accelerate, the whining would happen.
I took her to the dealership to see if somehow the timing chain repair had affected the turbo, and they swore no, but said to call Mazda on Monday to see if I could get authorization to diagnose the problem. They told me the car was smoking, which it hadn't been doing, or at least not that I had noticed. I drove off, and she was smoking so bad I could have been driving a Bond car. I made a u-turn to get back to the dealership ASAP, and then my car started bucking like a mechanical bull. I was afraid she was going to stall. The dealership stated that they had no responsibility for causing this additional damage (even though the smoking started after they worked on my car) and that I was going to be responsible for getting Mazda to cover diagnosis and repair.
I came across this forum and see there are what appear to be 2 TSBs for this problem. At the same time, they aren't giving me a rental or anything. If there's a TSB, doesn't that mean that they are responsible for doing the work?

[Raider]

Welcome! Sadly, tsb applies only really under warranty. Out of warranty, you are fucked. Canada had a recall. USA did not.

The best thing to do is call mazda USA and raise hell.

We had our turbo replaced under powertrain (2007 as well) warranty at Classic Mazda of Orlando.

It still smoked after but not as much. As you might see in searches here, our pcv system sucks. If you donate $10 to the forum or VIP access (DVD nav updates, speed3 manuals, and the buy sell section. Look for the @MATT DAMOND oil catch can and install one. How to is in this section. Will collect the oil before it is fed back into the intake. Winning! Best $160 spent.

[queenfan]

Okay, so Mazda came back today and offered to pay half the repair. I tried to remind Mazda USA that not only is this a well-known problem, but they dealer seems to be the one who really hurt the car.
I asked them to clear up exactly what test the dealer did to determine the turbo was a goner; they said that they looked at it and could tell.
I've got a call in to the dealership's GM to raise hell with him--my car was working, they tested it, they killed it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed someone there has a conscience, but I rather doubt it. I can't get them to say what they did to cause the smoke, but the 2 TSBs on here help.

[triplejumper18]

Get big turbo, solve problem, go faster.

[Peterspeed3]

i just recently got home, and there is excessive blue smoke from the o2 sensor/ headers are. basically my turbo seal is leaking is what i think happened. also there is a lot of smoke from my exhaust. i have a stock turbo, vibrant headers, turbo xs downpipe, cobb sfi and cobb ffront mount intercooler. if anyone can tell me what are the other causes of this excessive smoke is id appreciate it. fml...

i have a 07 mazda speed3 btw lolol forgot to mention.

[motherfnmonsta]

Originally Posted by Peterspeed3 i just recently got home, and there is excessive blue smoke from the o2 sensor/ headers are. basically my turbo seal is leaking is what i think happened. also there is a lot of smoke from my exhaust. i have a stock turbo, vibrant headers, turbo xs downpipe, cobb sfi and cobb ffront mount intercooler. if anyone can tell me what are the other causes of this excessive smoke is id appreciate it. fml... i have a 07 mazda speed3 btw lolol forgot to mention.

shits broke!!

[faeker]

wow. dead thread revival.


I was unaware that Vibrant made an exhaust manifold for the speed 3's. so much so that it's not even on their own website. perhaps you meant exhaust. knowledge the fuck up.

[motherfnmonsta]

Originally Posted by faeker wow. dead thread revival. I was unaware that Vibrant made an exhaust manifold for the speed 3's. so much so that it's not even on their own website. perhaps you meant exhaust. knowledge the fuck up.

ya i thought the same thing lol

[USMCMAzda]

You would think they would have to do more about this..

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Peterspeed3 i just recently got home, and there is excessive blue smoke from the o2 sensor/ headers are. basically my turbo seal is leaking is what i think happened. also there is a lot of smoke from my exhaust. i have a stock turbo, vibrant headers, turbo xs downpipe, cobb sfi and cobb ffront mount intercooler. if anyone can tell me what are the other causes of this excessive smoke is id appreciate it. fml... i have a 07 mazda speed3 btw lolol forgot to mention.

Vibrant headers?

Cobb sfi?

Never heard of these things.

Either your turbo seals are blown and or your ringlands are cracked.

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.