Methanol Aux Fueling + No IC

[achulz]

I just picked up a motor to rebuild, Manley rods and pistons, King bearings, L19 head and main studs are all going in, and since it’s a spare motor I can port the cylinder head. I want to try and change up the game little bit though with no intercooler, my aim is no more than 600HP, since that’s the limit of the Manley rods.

Currently I’m in the stock motor, CS turbo 25 PSI E30 + 100% meth w/ 1 1000cc nozzle. So I’m already running the methanol using AEM’s MAP based controller. With the benefits of meth injection, my BATs are in the 30F range! What is the need for an intercooler? Even with my TR10 front mount it doesn’t get anywhere close to that, no intercooler can.

My thought process is - Use a Split Second additional fuel controller with a 5th/6th port injection setup, running 100% methanol from a (large) fuel cell. That way with tuning you are able to fine control the injection from idling in traffic to WOT, not only using it for aux fueling but also to eiminate the need of an IC.

Not to mention the benefits of no IC:

-less weight
-lower water temps by not having a giant fmic
-much simpler routing
-shorter piping and thus
-less lag

This is just experimental if anything, I’m not extremely familiar with how the Split Second controller works so I don’t know if you can have the injectors running at idle, which would probably be required with this especially in hot climates.

Some feedback on why this is a bad idea or hasn’t been done before is much appreciated

[Fstrnyou]

@phate; has been running without an intercooler on his autocross car for a while now I think. Much lower power than your goals though.

@Matt@DamondMotorsports; also ran their drag car without intercooler for a short while.

[achulz]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou @phate; has been running without an intercooler on his autocross car for a while now I think. Much lower power than your goals though. @Matt@DamondMotorsports; also ran their drag car without intercooler for a short while.

How much power was Matt pushing? My car is mainly a street/drag car, not really meant for the track. But it is my daily driver (currently) although that might be changing pretty soon.

[Fstrnyou]

Not sure. Check out Damond's drag car thread.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by achulz How much power was Matt pushing? My car is mainly a street/drag car, not really meant for the track. But it is my daily driver (currently) although that might be changing pretty soon.

How does a non intercooler setup handle during regular cruising / part throttle conditions? I'd imagine bat's getting pretty high no?

[achulz]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 How does a non intercooler setup handle during regular cruising / part throttle conditions? I'd imagine bat's getting pretty high no?

That’s the idea with the Split Second controller. It injects at all times therefore it will keep BATs low.

[Fstrnyou]

Normal driving around/cruising would be considered "low boost". Turbo outlet temperatures shouldn't be that bad. Considering my WOT intercooled BATs would top out above 150 in the summer, I don't see non-intercooled part throttle BATs getting close to that.

In the early days of turbos, they didn't run intercoolers because they were only making upwards of 10psi.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by achulz That’s the idea with the Split Second controller. It injects at all times therefore it will keep BATs low.

Oh so you're planning on having meth injection at part throttle?

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Normal driving around/cruising would be considered "low boost". Turbo outlet temperatures shouldn't be that bad. Considering my WOT intercooled BATs would top out above 150 in the summer, I don't see non-intercooled part throttle BATs getting close to that. In the early days of turbos, they didn't run intercoolers because they were only making upwards of 10psi.

Yeah but what about heat soak? As soon as the bat's reach a certain temp if your sitting in traffic, especially during he summer, not having an intercooler would make it difficult to bring those temps back down. Imo for a daily driven car, keep the intercooler.

But then again that's just me

[Bertospeed3]

I dont think heatsoak would even matter if its constantly being sprayed. Gonna be running thru jugs of meth lol by that alone i'm sure it wouldnt be a dd

[Fstrnyou]

Heat soaking what? How can a non-existent intercooler get heatsoak?

[phate]

Non-intercooled, I see cruise temps around 180°, and it jumps near instantly to 240°+ at the hint of boost.

I do not recommend it if you plan to run 93 at any point in its life.

[Loophole35]

How much weight would you realistically save doing this vs. a TMIC from CS or CP-E? I just don’t see the constant meth injection as a substitute for just an passably efficient TMIC and save the meth for high boost.

Or are you just wanting to be different just because?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Loophole35 How much weight would you realistically save doing this vs. a TMIC from CS or CP-E? I just don’t see the constant meth injection as a substitute for just an passably efficient TMIC and save the meth for high boost. Or are you just wanting to be different just because?

You lose the core plus some pipe, in tems of weight. So 5-10 lbs off the front end. What I gained in response outweighs everything, and don't think I would go back.

I do this by running ethanol, not WMI. With an aux fueling setup with meth, it's going to be crazy expensive to run it all the time. The actual intake temp doesn't matter, it's what's going on in the cylinder that is important.

[Fstrnyou]

If you're curious about turbo outlet temps at different pressures, click below. Granted the turbo efficiency at very low boost is up for debate since it's probably off the chart.
Stealth 316 - Turbo Outlet Temperature

It doesn't take much boost to get very hot.

Also keep in mind that the manifold air temp sensor is mostly measuring the temperature of the manifold itself when there is a very low volume or air flowing across it. That's why BATs go down during the first phase of a pull. The incoming rush of air is cooling off the thermistor sensor from being heatsoaked by the manifold.

When you see 180 degree BATs while cruising, the air isn't 180. The sensor is.

[Jeff23spl]

for the same benefit of reduced lag and radiator airflow, i would at least use a water cooled ic. Put a small radiator in the back or somewhere else not in front of the car for the cooling fluid. Since you want to do a good part of the job with meth, for DD the water cooler would work at low boost and under high boost when the ic fluid get limited, the meth would take over ?