The Road to an EFR 9180 Build

[Printman]

Great #'s @NCspecV81; Hopefully one of these days I am going to catch one of the NC Nator meets on a weekend I am free and get to feel the power of all the NC speeds that are bigger than stock turbo. Keep it between the lines in the mountains, that could be some scary shit with your power, LOL.

I have had fun learning to tune myself but my tune IQ is limited so saving up for an e-tune from @atvfreek;

[NCspecV81]

I'll get on a real dyno here soon to get some credible numbers. I just want to get @NJSPEED3's PnP manifold installed before that.

[NCspecV81]

OCDspeed's axle back with catted cpe downpipe and still using stock mid section.

Mazdaspeed3 OCDspeed Axleback - YouTube

Mazdaspeed3 OCDspeed Axleback - YouTube

[NCspecV81]

1 out of 3 things installed this weekend. Guardian Angel in and CPE stage II rmm and NJSpeed3 Manifold still left to go. Sorry @NJSPEED3; at my tardiness on the core. I have to figure out how to put my foot down without my fiance' stepping on my toes!


Now if my dumb ass can figure out how to get it into VTA mode. I fail @ pdf's apparently.

[NCspecV81]

3rd gear rolling into the throttle with dsc and swas disabled. Not sure why my bsm off flashes?

[specvspeedfreak]

How did u get the axle back? Dont see it on his site, and how much was it?

[NCspecV81]

PM'd you. He was using it to design it. I'm not sure when/if he plans on releasing anything. Honestly, I love this thing.

[shaneski]

It sounds great , you still have the factory resonator or had it deleted?

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by shaneski It sounds great , you still have the factory resonator or had it deleted?

Factory resonator still on the car. So its not obnoxious.

[Speed3KG]

How do u like that turbo over the k04. I was thinking going that route once mine gives out or maybe even sooner than that?

[NCspecV81]

Love it. Good compromise between spool and power.

[Brc187]

Get on a dyno yet? Would love to see the progress.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[08cosmic3]

My plans are to install a BNR3 in the spring but I bet I've looked at the GTX2867's at Edges's a dozen times.

[NCspecV81]

Nothing new yet. No dyno unfortunately. Still slacking on installing manifold.

[Matrix311]

Get the manifold installed, it takes 2hrs!!

[resilientone]

Does that OCDspeed axelback drone on the highway? If not I'd like to buy one if I could. I like the way this sounds. I'll have a GTX2867 with full boltons installed this saturday on my 2010 speed 3.

[NCspecV81]

It's not too bad IMHO. I like it a lot actually.

[NCspecV81]

Went with an AEM V2 meth kit. Any ideas how this should be tuned? @atvfreek; tuned me for 93 and e85. Should this be tuned on both 93 and E85 as well? @Lex; @rfinkle2;

Also, what nozzle? I believe AEM comes with 250cc, 500cc, and 1000cc. 1000cc. More than likely will be running windshield washer fluid.

And It's at the shop now getting fit for a meth tank. Wanted something unique that I didn't have to fit my fat hows down to fill.

[atvfreek]

I would go with the middle nozzle and then tune it for both e85 mix and just 93.

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by atvfreek I would go with the middle nozzle and then tune it for both e85 mix and just 93.

Is there actually any additional power to be had with meth on an already e85 tune?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Is there actually any additional power to be had with meth on an already e85 tune?

Yup. Cooler bats is beneficial in itself

[802MS3]

and moar fuel!

I assume you are pretty taxed fuel-wise, but those clean injectors are still flowing a good amount.

[SilverMS307]

Damn, the more I read about these turbos I wish I would have went with one over my BNR. Only would have cost a couple hundred more

[Lex]

A 50/50 mix is great for for cooling down bats and increasing the efficiency of the setup overall. The most power will be made closer to 100% meth since it is a fuel and will burn but you are also relying on that system for fueling which is riskier if it fails and have to handle a flammable fluid. So don't put the tank inside the passenger compartment .

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by Lex A 50/50 mix is great for for cooling down bats and increasing the efficiency of the setup overall. The most power will be made closer to 100% meth since it is a fuel and will burn but you are also relying on that system for fueling which is riskier if it fails and have to handle a flammable fluid. So don't put the tank inside the passenger compartment .

I Don't have any plans to run 100 percent meth. Probably use the Walmart Racing Special.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 I Don't have any plans to run 100 percent meth. Probably use the Walmart Racing Special.

Also don't use washer fluid. It has a dye that will build up on the nozzle and eventually do some clogging.

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by Lex Also don't use washer fluid. It has a dye that will build up on the nozzle and eventually do some clogging.

Okay. Guess I'll be learning how to home brew some meth. Also, would 250cc pre-turbo be worth it? I'm all for moving the compressor map to the right.


swat team raid in 3....2...........................................

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Okay. Guess I'll be learning how to home brew some meth. Also, would 250cc pre-turbo be worth it? I'm all for moving the compressor map to the right. swat team raid in 3....2...........................................

You'll risk ruining the compressor wheel doing that, but a few people have done it successfully.

[shaneski]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Okay. Guess I'll be learning how to home brew some meth. Also, would 250cc pre-turbo be worth it? I'm all for moving the compressor map to the right. swat team raid in 3....2...........................................

I"ve used 50/50 water and methylated spirits (it's 95% ethanol) and it did the same job as methanol for cooling etc.

[NCspecV81]

I just bought some of this

Snow Performance 40008 Snow Performance Boost Cooler Accessories - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

Now I just hope I can get my car back next week. After all this crap melts that is.

[motherfnmonsta]

wish you waited man we could of gotten a 15 gallon drum for 165 from cv products and then split the cost of it and only cost us 83 bucks, 15 gallons would last us a long time

[NCspecV81]

I can always get more. I'm sure 4 gallons will eventually run out.

[NCspecV81]

This may evolve into a GTX3067r thread.

[guitarzan134]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 This may evolve into a GTX3067r thread.

Ryan, unless you only want a straight-line rocket, don't go bigger. If you ever go to the dragon with us, you'll be the most powerful car at the back of the pack. You have the PERFECT turbo to wreck Shit in the twisties. Moderation, brother hahaha.

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by guitarzan134 Ryan, unless you only want a straight-line rocket, don't go bigger. If you ever go to the dragon with us, you'll be the most powerful car at the back of the pack. You have the PERFECT turbo to wreck Shit in the twisties. Moderation, brother hahaha.

From what I read the GTX3067R is tits and you don't really lose any/much spool. Same compressor as the GTX2867r just with the GTX30 turbine wheel.

[twenty5psi]

On a larger displacement 4cyl like the DISI I think the GTX3067 could be a great option, going to pull this excerpt from turbobricks.com (turbo RWD Volvo board)

"This is an interesting question and one that I'd really like to see data for. Unfortunately there aren't any good test results (that I know of) showing a back-to-back comparison of the GTX2867R vs. GTX3067R on the same engine.

It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison since the turbine wheels are of two different designs, and the available turbine housing options are different for the 28 vs. the 30.

In general, irrespective of size, the GT28R turbine wheel aero design (blade and hub geometry) is more efficient than the turbine wheel design used in the GT30R and larger. If you scaled up a GT28R turbine to 60mm, it would outperform the GT30R. However, what's known as the "wheel speed match" is better for the GT3067R vs. the GT2867R. Given the same compressor stage, which is true in this case, going to a larger turbine wheel means the entire turbo will be more efficient.

For the same boost pressure, both turbos in this comparison would be at the same speed. At 2.0 pressure ratio, lets just say the compressor is operating at peak efficiency of 79%, around 33 lb/min and 105,000 rpm. A 60mm (GT30R) turbine wheel will be more efficient at 105krpm than a 53.9mm (GT28R) turbine wheel at the same speed, all else being equal. The complication is, for various reasons that all else is not equal because of the two different turbine wheel aero designs. But let's just say that the GT30R is more efficient at this operating point. The effects of that are:

-Lower exhaust backpressure (less turbine expansion ratio is needed to make the same shaft power)
-Improved VE / flow through cylinder head (because of lower restriction on exhaust side)
-Higher engine power output at the same boost pressure (due to improved VE)

The other thing to consider is the twin-scroll turbine housings that are available for the GT/GTX30R family, but not the 28 (not yet, anyways). A twin-scroll housing with a proper equal length, divided manifold, pairing cylinders 1&4 together and 2&3 together, will take advantage of scavenging and pulse energy to help the turbine spool up more quickly at low engine speeds.

Personally I am just about decided that I'll go with a GTX3067R on my B230FT 8-valve build, with a divided manifold and a new Garrett twin-scroll v-band housing. There is also a new twin-scroll T3 housing if you don't want the v-band option. ATP sells them, along with a weld on inlet adapter for building the manifold from. My guess based on the data I have available to me is that the GTX3067R w/ twin-scroll will outperform the GTX2867R single-scroll - in both spoolup / transient response and also power potential.

I had an Australian guy come up to me at the SEMA show last month and tell me how much he loved the GTX3067R, twin-scroll on his 1.6L Miata. He said that turbo woke the engine up and changed its character completely. He claimed huge power and almost instant spoolup (2500 rpm IIRC) but I didn't see proof so I'll take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, this guy loved it and his engine was much smaller than our redblocks are, but likely flowed similarly given the 16 valve head and higher rev limit.

The main situation that I'd suggest a GTX2867R over a GTX3067R would be upgrading from another GT28, because you can keep the same turbine housing. Or if packaging space for the turbo is extremely tight and a GT30R turbine housing won't fit. If you're stuck on internal wastegating, and won't do twin scroll, then it may be a toss-up in terms of performance between the two. You can't really go wrong either way though."

And from another thread....

"In this case the GTX3067R would be much better than the GTX3071R, and miles better than the GTX3076R. For a given turbine wheel diameter, 60mm in this case, there will be an ideal compressor wheel diameter to pair with it. As you make the compressor larger and larger with that same turbine wheel, your turbine efficiency goes down. I know it's a bit counter-intuitive but a smaller comp wheel will need to spin faster to make the same boost pressure and will cause the turbine to run at a faster, more efficient speed than a comp wheel that's too big for the turbine in question. The 2867, 3067, and 3071 are all decent combinations in terms of wheel speed match but the 3067 will exhibit the best turbine efficiency, all else being equal.

What that translates to is reduced backpressure, increased VE for the engine, more power at the same boost pressure, and quicker transient response.

Another important distinction to make is that the "spool" most people think of when they look at a full-load dyno graph doesn't tell the whole story about turbo boost response. Sure, it's valuable to know where the boost threshold is and what your usable power band will be, but in terms of a fun-factor and drivability, transient response is what you want. And it does not show up on a dyno graph. It's how quickly the turbo comes up to full-load boost pressure when you're cruising along at part throttle and suddenly go to WOT - a load step, in other words. How quickly the turbo goes from "coasting along" to "full boost" at that rpm is highly dependent on both turbine efficiency and also rotor inertia. Sure, smaller turbine & compressor wheels will respond quicker because there is less mass to spool up, but turbine efficiency can actually overpower that effect if enough of an improvement is made. In a nutshell you could get a 3067 to respond quicker in a transient load step than a 2867 if the turbine efficiency delta is great enough to overpower the difference in inertia. And I'm only talking about a couple points of efficiency here.



This could be a turbo that, for most guys, could get you right up to the ~400whp fueling limit easier then a 2867 with little or no loss in response.

[NCspecV81]

Oops fat fingered the thanks button. Groan removed. More I keep reading about this turbo I wished I would have done from the start. GTX2867 is going on the market once I source a GTX3067r. One thing I Like about this upgrade is I can keep my intake and another stuff. Just drop in the turbo and tune. @atvfreek; @Lex; @rfinkle2; You guys have any input?

@EdgeAutosport.com; Hey guys! Take my money!

[twenty5psi]

Was really thinking about pioneering this turbo for the platform, but I look forward to hearing your impressions, especially from someone who has already had a 2867 for comparison.

[motherfnmonsta]

Originally Posted by guitarzan134 Ryan, unless you only want a straight-line rocket, don't go bigger. If you ever go to the dragon with us, you'll be the most powerful car at the back of the pack. You have the PERFECT turbo to wreck Shit in the twisties. Moderation, brother hahaha.

I agree, bigger is not always better. I remember the first time I went to the dragon I think there was a guy from TN nator with a 3076 and it was complaining about lag and how the guys with the smaller turbos where just pulling from him cause it took him a little to spool and by the time he did he was all ready entering the next turn.

Ryan what you need to think about is, what do you want the car to do, straight light speed, or twistie roads and dd, I think the turbo you have now is perfect and you can still get more power out of your turbo especially when you start going to meth, you will get more power out of that turbo.

[twenty5psi]

Originally Posted by motherfnmonsta I agree, bigger is not always better. I remember the first time I went to the dragon I think there was a guy from TN nator with a 3067 and it was complaining about lag and how the guys with the smaller turbos where just pulling from him cause it took him a little to spool and by the time he did he was all ready entering the next turn. Ryan what you need to think about is, what do you want the car to do, straight light speed, or twistie roads and dd, I think the turbo you have now is perfect and you can still get more power out of your turbo especially when you start going to meth, you will get more power out of that turbo.

3067=/3076