Thinking about a 2015 ST

[spdandpwr]

Hi all,

Looking for opinions on the platform. I have the option of getting an ST2 with navi and sunroof for 26k before tax and dmv (which I think is a solid deal). Thing is, I drive a 2015 STi now and am wondering if the ST is good enough where I won't miss my STi or if I should hang onto the STi for longer and wait for the RS.

The gas mileage on the ST and the fact that it's got great reviews are making me lean towards it.

Let me know!

[Nliiitend1]

RS will likely cost nearly 50% more than that, if that matters to you...

[SuckSqueezBangBlow]

Wait for the RS. it will blow both of them out of the water. I say hold off.

[bladerunner10121]

Well you had the 3, Sold it for an STI now you want to get the 3's retarded, slower cousin? Just go test drive one.
I was disappointed.
Actually I was happy since it confirmed that I had made the right choice.
The RS is a different class of car entirely.

[spdandpwr]

really? wow, I thought the 3 was a bit too mild / tame, particularly in the handling department. Could've been due to the 235 high performance all seasons I had on there.

[bladerunner10121]

The 3 definitely needs some help in the suspension department but so will the ST.
The mazdaspeed 3 is a better starting platform IMO. The ST doesn't even have a LSD.

[Gr8Speed]

ST handles like a fucking go kart. I agree it would benefit from LSD, but I toss this thing so god damn hard and I pass nearly everything on the track in my run group. Definitely night and day handling vs the Speed3.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 RS will likely cost nearly 50% more than that, if that matters to you...

and damn WELL worth it. price is expected to be in the STI range. That's roughly resale pricing so if dealers want to scalp..it will go up from there.

BTW Apparently Ford is not wanting the RS to be limited production from the article below so that will make pricing better.

The assembly plant in Saarlouis, Germany, that builds the RS is very flexible. That means Ford expects to be able to build as many RS as demand dictates.

Ford boosting power, handling of Focus RS hot hatch for 2016 debut

but to OP...yea def get an ST....leave an RS for me.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed ST handles like a fucking go kart. I agree it would benefit from LSD, but I toss this thing so god damn hard and I pass nearly everything on the track in my run group. Definitely night and day handling vs the Speed3.

It has the same basic suspension geometry as the MS3.

The biggest difference is that the ST's RSB is a bit more linear in its engagement/operation (due to having a more favorable motion ratio - since the bar is attached more outboard toward the wheels) and the ST's rear brakes are used to help turn the car (which, for novice drivers especially, helps to make the car feel much more set up for "point and shoot" driving).

I feel that a properly set up MS3 can handle arguably as well in the right hands.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 It has the same basic suspension geometry as the MS3. The biggest difference is that the ST's RSB is a bit more linear in its engagement/operation (due to having a more favorable motion ratio - since the bar is attached more outboard toward the wheels) and the ST's rear brakes are used to help turn the car (which, for novice drivers especially, helps to make the car feel much more set up for "point and shoot" driving). I feel that a properly set up MS3 can handle arguably as well in the right hands.

Power delivery plays a large roll as well. Torque steer isn't as bad in the ST. Another factor is OEM tires. Love it or hate it, torque vectoring via the brakes works wonders. Only downside is the brakes cook like bacon.

[spdandpwr]

yea, i think a lot of what's compelling me is the entire package as well. Car is really well rounded from tech to performance and includes a sunroof which is something I really want / like for the summer months.

The low price that they're selling it for is also great!!!

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed torque vectoring via the brakes works wonders. Only downside is the brakes cook like bacon.

That's a pretty fucking big downside in my books. Plus that artificial diff combined with the vectoring made the car feel like if was fighting itself to me. It'll go in a straight line, but you can feel it making the corrects to make it possible.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by InkedInspector That's a pretty fucking big downside in my books. Plus that artificial diff combined with the vectoring made the car feel like if was fighting itself to me. It'll go in a straight line, but you can feel it making the corrects to make it possible.

Idk. I turn off DCS (not completely, just press the button for "sport mode") and have Hawk HPS pads and the car doesn't fight me. To each their own, but I'm pretty damn confident this car would have raped my speed3 on a track.

[[R]usty]

VIR Times

103. Mazda 3 MPS 3:16.00 124 '06 260 / 1485
104. Mazda 3 MPS 3:16.20 124 '09 260 / 1456
105. Dodge Challenger SRT-8 3:16.30 124 '09 431 / 1904
106. Subaru Impreza WRX 3:16.50 124 '08 265 / 1468
107. Lotus Elise SC 3:16.60 124 '08 220 / 913
108. Mazda RX-8 R3 3:16.70 124 '09 231 / 1391
109. Mini John Cooper Works 3:17.10 123 '08 211 / 1130
110. Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 MkII 3:17.40 123 '11 477 / 2374
111. Infiniti G37 Coupe 3:17.50 123 '08 335 / 1710
112. Dodge Charger SRT-8 3:18.20 123 '05 431 / 1887
113. Mini Coup� John Cooper Works 3:18.40 123 '11 211 / 1230
114. Subaru BRZ 3:18.60 123 '12 200 / 1220 C&D
115. Mazda RX-8 3:19.00 122 '02 231 / 1400
116. Subaru Impreza WRX STI 3:19.00 122 '07 300 / 1527
117. VW Golf GTI Mk. VI 3:19.30 122 '09 211 / 1318
118. Chevrolet Cobalt SS 3:20.60 121 '05 208 / 1273
119. Dodge Caliber SRT4 3:20.80 121 '08 288 / 1505
120. Ford Mustang GT 3:20.90 121 '04 300 / 1580
121. Ford Focus ST 3:21.40 121 '12 250 / 1432 C&D

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by [R]usty VIR Times 103.Mazda 3 MPS3:16.00124'06260 / 1485 104.Mazda 3 MPS3:16.20124'09260 / 1456 105.Dodge Challenger SRT-83:16.30124'09431 / 1904 106.Subaru Impreza WRX3:16.50124'08265 / 1468 107.Lotus Elise SC3:16.60124'08220 / 913 108.Mazda RX-8 R33:16.70124'09231 / 1391 109.Mini John Cooper Works3:17.10123'08211 / 1130 110.Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 MkII3:17.40123'11477 / 2374 111.Infiniti G37 Coupe3:17.50123'08335 / 1710 112.Dodge Charger SRT-83:18.20123'05431 / 1887 113.Mini Coup� John Cooper Works3:18.40123'11211 / 1230 114.Subaru BRZ3:18.60123'12200 / 1220C&D 115.Mazda RX-83:19.00122'02231 / 1400 116.Subaru Impreza WRX STI3:19.00122'07300 / 1527 117.VW Golf GTI Mk. VI3:19.30122'09211 / 1318 118.Chevrolet Cobalt SS3:20.60121'05208 / 1273 119.Dodge Caliber SRT43:20.80121'08288 / 1505 120.Ford Mustang GT3:20.90121'04300 / 1580 121.Ford Focus ST3:21.40121'12250 / 1432C&D

This is assuming everyone here is a professional driver. Easier car to drive well > car that can be driven better in a consumer market, no?

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed This is assuming everyone here is a professional driver. Easier car to drive well > car that can be driven better in a consumer market, no?

I take it the other way. I think people buying this kind of car would prefer a car that challenges them. The ST being easier to drive fast isn't a a simple matter of suspension, wheels, etc. It is the car using computers and braking to make joe blow driver think he's a race car driver. I am not a fan of it, never will be. It is the same reason I don't like a lot of things about the new GT-R. It makes it too easy to do something that should require some amount of skill or practice. Is it a more capable car, honestly I think the ST and MS3 on a track are all driver. If those two drivers are novice, the ST is probably going to win. Take it FWIW.

[Deldran]

I have seen a guy destroy a both rotors, a caliper and all front brake pads in 1 track day. Fuck the e diff in the ST. While the ST might handle better out of the box, a rear seat bar on the 3 pretty much negates that. The 3 is a much better car all around.

And torque steer is not a valid excuse for anything. A high quality rmm will negate most of all torque steer problems. Don't be a pussy and hold onto the wheel.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Gr8Speed]

I agree. My heated recaros in my speed3 were the best. And the cool front mount.

[spdandpwr]

Originally Posted by [R]usty VIR Times 103. Mazda 3 MPS 3:16.00 124 '06 260 / 1485 104. Mazda 3 MPS 3:16.20 124 '09 260 / 1456 105. Dodge Challenger SRT-8 3:16.30 124 '09 431 / 1904 106. Subaru Impreza WRX 3:16.50 124 '08 265 / 1468 107. Lotus Elise SC 3:16.60 124 '08 220 / 913 108. Mazda RX-8 R3 3:16.70 124 '09 231 / 1391 109. Mini John Cooper Works 3:17.10 123 '08 211 / 1130 110. Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 MkII 3:17.40 123 '11 477 / 2374 111. Infiniti G37 Coupe 3:17.50 123 '08 335 / 1710 112. Dodge Charger SRT-8 3:18.20 123 '05 431 / 1887 113. Mini Coup� John Cooper Works 3:18.40 123 '11 211 / 1230 114. Subaru BRZ 3:18.60 123 '12 200 / 1220 C&D 115. Mazda RX-8 3:19.00 122 '02 231 / 1400 116. Subaru Impreza WRX STI 3:19.00 122 '07 300 / 1527 117. VW Golf GTI Mk. VI 3:19.30 122 '09 211 / 1318 118. Chevrolet Cobalt SS 3:20.60 121 '05 208 / 1273 119. Dodge Caliber SRT4 3:20.80 121 '08 288 / 1505 120. Ford Mustang GT 3:20.90 121 '04 300 / 1580 121. Ford Focus ST 3:21.40 121 '12 250 / 1432 C&D

Hmmm, I don't know about these times, the focus for the 2014 V1R did very well and that's not with the new 2015 suspension tuning:

BMW M235i 3:07.2/78.8 132.8
Subaru WRX STI 3:10.5/77.5 126.9
Lexus IS350 F Sport 3:13.4/76.3 126.9
Subaru WRX 3:15.5/75.5 124.1
Ford Focus ST 3:17.6/74.7 120.6
Volkswagen GTI 3:19.3/74.1 120.1
Ford Fiesta ST 3:20.4/73.7 117.8

That said, the STi and the WRX beat the car outright...but I'm betting it has a lot to do with that diff and the fact that the ST is down on power compared to them. I'm glad it beat the GTI though -- I hate that car

[Gr8Speed]

RMM negates torque steer? Hmmmmm.

[jeoje]

If you're considering another AWD, you could keep an eye out for the new VW Golf R. The manual model should be hitting the states this summer. I got the DSG, which I have very mixed feelings about as I wanted a manual, but didn't want to wait. But besides that, the car is awesome. Butt dyno says it's a bit faster than my bolted speed, is very well planted, and is far, far more comfortable to drive. Better yet, stage 1 tunes with just an intake are pushing over 350whp. All that said, definitely can't compare pricing to the ST or MS3, but is a close match price-wise to the STi.

My first AWD so maybe I'm having a bit of honeymoon effect.

Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk

[spdandpwr]

I don't really care for the awd to be honest. In fact, the STi in the winter with snow tires was no better than any fwd with snow tires. I don't drive fast in the snow to appreciate the diffs and because so much mechanical diff action is going on, you usually ride the clutch to catch any grip lol.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Let me ask this:

Do you track regularly? Will the vehicle be driven at the limits? If not --> Pick whichever is best for your environment. If you have to have AWD, pick that. If it doesn't matter, go with an ST. If you do track regularly --> Get another MS3. I don't care what people say, if you want a true track vehicle between the ST and MS3 you have to go with the one with less electronic nannies.

Eiither you pay for higher HP or you just buy the ST and have fun with it. Lower insurance, parts are everywhere already (since everyone and their mother owns one), and you get much better fuel economy.

Also, you have a fucking 2015 STi. You mustve had that car for under a year....why do you want to change so quickly? Seems like an awful lot of money to flush down the toilet on depreciation. Just my 2 cents.

[lug]

Originally Posted by [R]usty VIR Times 103. Mazda 3 MPS 3:16.00 124 '06 260 / 1485 104. Mazda 3 MPS 3:16.20 124 '09 260 / 1456 105. Dodge Challenger SRT-8 3:16.30 124 '09 431 / 1904 106. Subaru Impreza WRX 3:16.50 124 '08 265 / 1468 107. Lotus Elise SC 3:16.60 124 '08 220 / 913 108. Mazda RX-8 R3 3:16.70 124 '09 231 / 1391 109. Mini John Cooper Works 3:17.10 123 '08 211 / 1130 110. Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 MkII 3:17.40 123 '11 477 / 2374 111. Infiniti G37 Coupe 3:17.50 123 '08 335 / 1710 112. Dodge Charger SRT-8 3:18.20 123 '05 431 / 1887 113. Mini Coup� John Cooper Works 3:18.40 123 '11 211 / 1230 114. Subaru BRZ 3:18.60 123 '12 200 / 1220 C&D 115. Mazda RX-8 3:19.00 122 '02 231 / 1400 116. Subaru Impreza WRX STI 3:19.00 122 '07 300 / 1527 117. VW Golf GTI Mk. VI 3:19.30 122 '09 211 / 1318 118. Chevrolet Cobalt SS 3:20.60 121 '05 208 / 1273 119. Dodge Caliber SRT4 3:20.80 121 '08 288 / 1505 120. Ford Mustang GT 3:20.90 121 '04 300 / 1580 121. Ford Focus ST 3:21.40 121 '12 250 / 1432 C&D

That was the first year when they accidentally ran over the key fob early in testing and couldn't run the 2nd "fast" day. Still have no idea why they even posted the "result".

[predapio]

Listen fool. Wait for the RS.

I have a '14 Slow Turd, and well it's....slow...

[lilrod93]

or....do mustang ecoboost

[spdandpwr]

I'm gonna wait for the '16 ST or the RS when it comes out. I was thinking about a Golf R, but I remembered how much I don't like VW. After driving MT daily for the last 5 years, I've kinda prefer it.

and I wanna wait for the '16 because I would rather wait for SYNC 3. It's supposed to be the best!