Product Release: Stratified Boost Dial

[Lex]

As many of you know tuning boost and load on the DISI is one of the challenges to getting the car to perform well in all weather conditions and to have great driveability. The OEM K04 runs in 2 port mode and we can target load or boost and achieve great results fairly easily.

When changing the turbocharger, it was a requirement that the boost control valve solenoid (EBCS) be swapped for a 3 port (interrupt style) in order to still electronically control boost and achieve a stable boost curve and response. Sure, manual boost controllers were always an option but often not the best one.

Unfortunately when tuning in 3 port mode (interrupt) there was a good amount of work involved in getting the response just right, limit spikes, and oscillations. Tuners became quite good at doing this but in the process we neuter a lot of load dynamics tables and lose some nice features such as load/boost gear per which are so nice in a FWD. On top of this some cars take a long time to fine tune the boost curve on and most importantly some driveability is lost as a 3 port will be much more affected by changes in car setup and weather.

At Stratified we have always sided with load tuning and have played a big part in having companies like COBB and VersaTuner enable load based tuning and removing all caps. Load based tuning with a 3 port is challenging at best ... so now we have a better solution.

The Stratified Boost Dial

The Stratified Boost Dial allows you to tune ANY turbocharger in 2 port mode (bleed) and do all this with full load (or boost) based tuning. It allows you to keep the OEM 2 port (or get an aftermarket one if it's broken) while tuning your big turbo. Best of all, the load and boost dynamics tables can be left mostly untouched from factory settings!

Driveability and boost control are vastly improved, load by gear is back, and you maintain a constant load (torque) curve in all seasons making this type of control much more flexible than 3 port (interrupt) style. The Stratified Boost Dial was used to increase boost on the K04 as well as tune several large turbos including BNRs and GT series with both internal and external wastegates.

This closes the loop on boost control for the MazdaSpeed. You can now choose your tuning weapon and method. Whether it's 3 port, 2 port, boost targeting, or load targeting, we give you the capability to do all this at Stratified.

Setting this up is easy with a full set of clear instructions on our website and the full support and engineering behind Stratified products that you've come to know and expect.

[Lex]

Here is how simple it is to set this up for a BNR S3 for example.

1. Route the vacuum lines.

The first diagram is for the OEM 2 port solenoid

This second diagram is if you are using a 3 port solenoid. The port numbers are the same whether you are using a Stratified, GS, COBB solenoid

2. Set your wastegate and dynamics tables. Look they are ALL STOCK except for the WGDC table!

3. Do some driving and set your Boost Dial.

4. Set your load or boost targets and do some logging.

You know you have set your boost dial correctly if the logged wastegate duty cycle and boost curves look like this. Notice the quick ramp in boost and little to no oscillations of the boost or WGDC. The oscillations that are less than 1psi are not felt by the driver. Also notice that the WGDC is in the 80-95% range when reaching the maximum desired boost near redline.

If you've' turned the boost dial too far in the + direction then you will see oscillations like shown below. If you see this you need to turn the dial in the - direction.

If you have a slow boost rise and get to 100% WGDC without reaching your load or boost targets then the boost dial needs to be turned in the + direction more or the turbo is not able to reach those load/boost targets.

5. WIN! It's that easy. Have excellent boost control, great driveability, and no boost spikes with great spool and a tapering curve (as defined by your load targets)!

[Dano]

nice lil device lex. When I get my new hotside I may have to give one of these a try.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Dano nice lil device lex. When I get my new hotside I may have to give one of these a try.

Thanks Dan, and thanks for making the room. I uploaded just how easy load tuning has become

[sidekick]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly is this doing to allow tuning to be so much easier? Restricting boost to a set pressure?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by boost_addict Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly is this doing to allow tuning to be so much easier? Restricting boost to a set pressure?

It is enabling the use of a bleed style boost control method (like OEM) by allowing you to adjust the flow from the boost source.

The solenoid in bleed mode can only bleed so much. It has to bleed enough to drop the pressure at the WG actuator in order to increase boost.

So the Boost Dial is a device you can tune to restrict flow into the WG actuator line so that the solenoid can keep up and effectively drop pressure at the wastegate line which then gives you control over boost.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Yet another darn spiffy tool there Lex!

[Haltech]

Nice, how much are these retailing for Alex?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Haltech Nice, how much are these retailing for Alex?

Listed on my site for $70.

[kish89]

I got my BNR S3 turbo 7 months ago, and since I was very satisfied with Stratified tune on stock turbo my choice for BNR was of course again Stratified.
Everything was ready to go, I got 3BAR MAP sensor and Grimmspeed EBCS.

Car felt great on first two tune iterations when we were at low boost (~17PSI), but as soon as Lex started to raise load targets, we ran into some issues.
Car was hitting ~21-22PSI at whole RPM range as intended, but boost was oscillating badly.
It was something like 22-19-22-18-22-20PSI-etc and believe me it was no fun to drive car like that.
Lex was trying to tune out that issue, but it seems that my speed didn't like any solution.

Next step was to try only with Grimmspeed MBC. Oscillations were gone, but my boost curve was like on K04, at ~3k RPM we got 22PSI boost, and at redline it was ~18PSI.
So again, we didn't get what we were asking.

We were out of options, either I have boost or exhaust leak, or my speed just likes to be stubborn.
I did leak test, and nothing, everything was just fine.
Lex told me that he is developing some kind of valve(boost dial), which should solve this issues.

After few weeks of waiting, boost dial finally arrived. I installed it right away with new tune iteration which Lex sent me, and WOW what a difference.
Car felt as completely different car, so smooth acceleration, way better throttle response, load targets were spot on and no more oscillations!
I just can't believe what that little valve did to my car. I don't know how many guys have this issue, but I can tell you from my personal experience that this is working great.

Valve itself is very sturdy and bullet proof.
Installed pic:

[Voltwings]

This seems similar to what DJ had mentioned a while back, about running a MBC + the Factory EBC to maintain a flat torque curve. Not trying to call you guys out for "stealing ideas" just trying to understand what exactly it is im looking at. Thanks.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Voltwings This seems similar to what DJ had mentioned a while back, about running a MBC + the Factory EBC to maintain a flat torque curve. Not trying to call you guys out for "stealing ideas" just trying to understand what exactly it is im looking at. Thanks.

This is not an MBC. Using an MBC will not get you the correct results as @kish89; explained above. Also this idea has been in the works since last summer. I was waiting to do a lot of testing and more importantly for COBB to fully eliminate the load cap to WGDC which they did a month ago.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Lex This is not an MBC. Using an MBC will not get you the correct results.

Ok, i was mistaking your "dial" for an MBC, the routing seemed similar to DJ's but a few people Ninja'd replys while i was making my first post and it makes more sense now. Thanks.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Ok, i was mistaking your "dial" for an MBC, the routing seemed similar to DJ's but a few people Ninja'd replys while i was making my first post and it makes more sense now. Thanks.

This will definitely not work as an MBC - internally it is completely different and serves a different purpose. It has to be paired to a bleed source (solenoid) for it to control boost. Also, this is using full closed loop load control when set correctly. This means load by gear works and airflow can be targeted, not boost. You can turn the boost toggle on of course and target boost should you choose.

[kish89]

Originally Posted by Voltwings This seems similar to what DJ had mentioned a while back, about running a MBC + the Factory EBC to maintain a flat torque curve. Not trying to call you guys out for "stealing ideas" just trying to understand what exactly it is im looking at. Thanks.

Forgot to say that we also tried that solution EBCS+MBC (hybrid mode), but it was no good, oscillations were still there and we couldn't get flat boost curve as we wanted.

[ms3blackmica]

Great Work Lex

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by kish89 Forgot to say that we also tried that solution EBCS+MBC (hybrid mode), but it was no good, oscillations were still there and we couldn't get flat boost curve as we wanted.

Yeah i tried that before the load caps were eliminated to hold boost up top lol and its almost more trouble than its worth. Glad to see this spiffy little thing is working though. Most big turbos (at least EWG that i know of) run in 2 port mode anyways, so this kinda saves money over a grimmspeed... small amount, but saved nonetheless.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Yeah i tried that before the load caps were eliminated to hold boost up top lol and its almost more trouble than its worth. Glad to see this spiffy little thing is working though. Most big turbos (at least EWG that i know of) run in 2 port mode anyways, so this kinda saves money over a grimmspeed... small amount, but saved nonetheless.

If the stock 2 port is not broken this saves 50% over what GS EBCS retail for and it's cheaper than our Stratified EBCV as well.

[beachshoer]

As a tuning retard (my oil soaked hands don't mix well with the keyboard) I have one question.

Will this help you tune my car? And will this benefit my setup?

Im assuming you're going to say yes Alex. So expect some money heading your way.

Again.

Nice work

[aldekei]

The description says that boost can be increased on OEM turbos. Does this include the K04, and what kind of boost are we talking about?

tapawhat

[86AmishMs3]

Sooo how is this different then a MBC and why can't a MBC function the same....more specifics.

Also do you need a pill for a turbo that does not have one to be able to tune with this?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by aldekei The description says that boost can be increased on OEM turbos. Does this include the K04, and what kind of boost are we talking about? tapawhat

Yes, you can change the boost characteristics (spool) as well as increase boost on the K04 by using this. You need to run a non restricted boost source to it such as that from your manifold.

Originally Posted by 86azms3 Sooo how is this different then a MBC and why can't a MBC function the same....more specifics. Also do you need a pill for a turbo that does not have one to be able to tune with this?

The MBC can't function the same because it is not the same internally.

No pill needed. The lines to and from the Boost Dial are completely unrestricted.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by beachshoer As a tuning retard (my oil soaked hands don't mix well with the keyboard) I have one question. Will this help you tune my car? And will this benefit my setup? Im assuming you're going to say yes Alex. So expect some money heading your way. Again. Nice work

We are using a 3 port strategy on your car and it is running well. I will write you a reply that is overdue regarding this. If you like how the car drives with the 3 port we can continue with that strategy. If you want to go to load based tuning then the Boost Dial is the way to go.

[Lex]

Also @SleeperHatch; was tuned on his GT turbo and EWG using the Boost Dial and the OEM 2 port when I was down in San Diego in October. He can chime in with is results as well.

[beachshoer]

Originally Posted by Lex We are using a 3 port strategy on your car and it is running well. I will write you a reply that is overdue regarding this. If you like how the car drives with the 3 port we can continue with that strategy. If you want to go to load based tuning then the Boost Dial is the way to go.

Are you trying to tell me you don't want my money? Now im just confused. I guess ill have to do a little reading on the advantages and downfalls of load based tuning. Dammit man that's what I thought I paid you for Alex. Now you're going to make me learn something.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by beachshoer Are you trying to tell me you don't want my money? Now im just confused. I guess ill have to do a little reading on the advantages and downfalls of load based tuning. Dammit man that's what I thought I paid you for Alex. Now you're going to make me learn something.

Incoming e-mail in a few minutes.

[Mortose]

Question i have for you @Lex; would this be a benefit for me at this stage?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Mortose Question i have for you @Lex; would this be a benefit for me at this stage?

It can, just like the 3 port, allow for more boost from the K04.

[SarcasticOne]

Believe @atvfreek; has spoken to you about the issues on my car with boost being an absolute pain to get right...

Looks like I'm getting one of these... Will pick up a GA as well whilst I'm at it...

Currently have a grimmspeed ebc installed, what changes do I need to make?

Also, doesn't this product directly compete with your ebc?

[Dano]

you would just switch your GS from 3 port to 2 port mode.

[nojjy]

So, pretty much, what you are doing is fooling the wastegate by installing a flow/ pressure regulator in the sensing line?

[atvfreek]

It's like running a variable restrictor pill. Instead of swapping pills to get boost control right, you simply turn the dial.

Sent from your couch

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Believe @atvfreek; has spoken to you about the issues on my car with boost being an absolute pain to get right... Looks like I'm getting one of these... Will pick up a GA as well whilst I'm at it... Currently have a grimmspeed ebc installed, what changes do I need to make? Also, doesn't this product directly compete with your ebc?

It doesn't necessarily compete with the ebcs. You can still run a 3 port solenoid in 2 port mode

Sent from your couch

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Lex Listed on my site for $70.

set aside 4 of them for me.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Haltech set aside 4 of them for me.

raffle items?

[Ziggo]

Nifty, so its basically a variable sized pill. I am not clear on how it impacts load vs boost tuning though. Just that you can dampen the hyperactivity of the load tune a bit using it?

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Nifty, so its basically a variable sized pill. I am not clear on how it impacts load vs boost tuning though. Just that you can dampen the hyperactivity of the load tune a bit using it?

yeah IDK...I would think a boost targeting tune would benefit more since the ECU load logic is extremely rapid to take action whereas boost targeting logic is a bit lazy...

[Lex]

Great replies guys.

You can use load targeting as well as boost targeting logic (flick the boost toggle on).

The nice thing here is that you can use the Boost Dial to move the operating window of your 2 port EBCS up and down and maintain the wastegate dynamics and load dynamics in play without neutering those tables. Yes you can even run a 3 port as a 2 port.

The 3 ports can be a pain to tune sometimes due to oscillation and spiking - they are a lot more sensitive to changes in setup and weather and this is an alternative to that. Downside? You will have to adjust the dial to get the 2 port to be active in your desired boost window (say spring pressure to 22psi for the K04). Once you've set it, you forget it and tune electronically.

Some of you will still choose a 3 port. Others will go this route. They both allow you to control boost, it's just that this is closer to the OEM logic and a bleed (2 port) system in general is more forgiving.

I have made a big diagram summary to help shed more light on how to set this:

[SleeperHatch]

Will be installing this baby very soon. I got my OEM Boost Solenoid the other day and the Boost dial came in yesterday so I'll be hooking everything up shortly. When @Lex tuned me with this thing I fell in love! Being load tuned again is amazing and my car really took to this very well. I gotta say if you buy anything from Stratified be ready to be blown away by the item as well as the customer service!!

[beachshoer]

Color coded and everything. Son of a bitch. Can't get much more simple than that. Genius.

[Zbrit00x]

Il be needing one to replace my slow response mbc setup!