Gen 2 Cobb ATR discussion

[PapaSmurf]

just timing from 5500 up, running around 12*

fmic lowers your G's

hence why u see people with tmic getting 290 - 300 ish. But most of the time there maf cal is off.

if you look ill get 60mph-100mph alot quicker than anyone hitting those g's

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by MicaBlueMS3 Couple recent logs I took today, Ambient temp is about 70-75. Im trying to get a little more boost out from 5800+, well atleast trying to hold 18, i think i might need to raise my WGDC a point or two from that RPM up. dont mind the knock in the 3rd gear log at the end, accidently hit off rev limiter not paying attention. haha oh and i think my car is pretty quick, im getting torque steer in 4th gear haha.

Haha, gotta love the torque steer, I was passing a car as I was doing a 4th gear pull and almost ended up in their lane. A little scetchy. Lol

Your car definitely loves life and seems to pull hard.

What is your knock offset table set at? And are you targeting 12:1 tapering to 11.8:1? Thanks

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Haha, gotta love the torque steer, I was passing a car as I was doing a 4th gear pull and almost ended up in their lane. A little scetchy. Lol Your car definitely loves life and seems to pull hard. What is your knock offset table set at? And are you targeting 12:1 tapering to 11.8:1? Thanks

knock offsets are whatever the OTS maps were at for stage 2 sf fmic, didnt mess with them.

from 2500-5000rpm i target 12.013 and 11.9, 11.8, 11.7, 11.7. Something me and DJ talked about says our cars like that better than mid 11's

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by MicaBlueMS3 knock offsets are whatever the OTS maps were at for stage 2 sf fmic, didnt mess with them. from 2500-5000rpm i target 12.013 and 11.9, 11.8, 11.7, 11.7. Something me and DJ talked about says our cars like that better than mid 11's

Cool im gonna give those afr's a try. Right now I target 11.7 across the board but feel like i'm leaving some power on the table. Thanks!

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[wolly6973]

You are on 93 oct since you are on the east coast right?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 You are on 93 oct since you are on the east coast right?

me?

yes i am.

[wolly6973]

What is the consensus on how octane affects tuning practices?
I know you will be more likely to knock so you will usually run less timing, but should we also target lower AFRs to help combat knock?

[atvfreek]

Right now i'm targeting 11.7 afr and usually hold 11.76. Is it worth doing another maf cal for wot? If so, what would I add to bring it down.

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[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 What is the consensus on how octane affects tuning practices? I know you will be more likely to knock so you will usually run less timing, but should we also target lower AFRs to help combat knock?

Yes usually run lower afr's and a little less timing for low octane.

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[Ex_WRX_driver]

Just put in my order for 2011 ATR, cant wait.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Ex_WRX_driver Just put in my order for 2011 ATR, cant wait.

Hell yeah. Let us know if you need a hand.

[indianaryan]

So the 2011 OTS maps are actually different than the 2010 maps? I figured they would be the same. Are they v100 or v101?

[FridayGt]

Originally Posted by indianaryan So the 2011 OTS maps are actually different than the 2010 maps? I figured they would be the same. Are they v100 or v101?

I could have sworn they were v101 last night when I updated my AP. I was, however, well past a six pack and I'm not home to verify right now.

[rfinkle2]

I believe there is now a firmware update and this:

new version of ATR (1760)

Firmware and AccessTUNER Updates for MAZDASPEEDs Available Now!

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...PEED-Vehicles!

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I believe there is now a firmware update and this: new version of ATR (1760) Firmware and AccessTUNER Updates for MAZDASPEEDs Available Now! Firmware and AccessTUNER Update for MAZDASPEED Vehicles!

believe its only to support 2011's and fix a couple bugs.

Still waiting on LC/FFS and to actually have the idle tables work.

[goodfella16]

you guys might want to look into adding a few degrees of timing (to start off with) in your VVT...check my log and you can see as the RPM's increase (and VVT/crankshaft degree decreases) my WGDC skyrockets from 5k-5.5k..im using a more aggressive VVT map (its from a stage 2+ SF + TIH + TMIC, while im using a Stage 2 + SF map) and it really helped ALOT!..i just remade a map and added 2.5degrees at 6k to help this, and added 1 degree to 5.5k to see how it helps

edit: thanks to fink for the conversion below, didnt realize what format it was in

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by goodfella16 you guys might want to look into adding a few degrees of timing (to start off with) in your VVT...check my log and you can see as the RPM's increase (and VVT/crankshaft degree decreases) my WGDC skyrockets from 5k-5.5k..im using a more aggressive VVT map (its from a stage 2+ SF + TIH + TMIC, while im using a Stage 2 + SF map) and it really helped ALOT!..i just remade a map and added 2.5degrees at 6k to help this, and added 1 degree to 5.5k to see how it helps

I took the liberty of converting your file.

BTW, that log looks great.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

I haven't read much about vvt manipulation. Is it a parameter that is fairly safe and straightforward to work with? I can't even remember reading much about it in gen 1 threads.

[goodfella16]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 I haven't read much about vvt manipulation. Is it a parameter that is fairly safe and straightforward to work with? I can't even remember reading much about it in gen 1 threads.

from what i understand, its pretty important to have these set accordingly for optimum performance..you can read up on it


"for twin cam or DOHC engines, VCT(variable cam timing) was used on either the intake or exhaust camshaft. (Engines that have VCT on both camshafts are now designated as Ti-VCT.) The use of variable camshaft timing on the exhaust camshaft is for improved emissions, and vehicles with VCT on the exhaust camshaft do not require exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) as retarding the exhaust cam timing achieves the same result.[1] VCT on the intake camshaft is used primarily for increasing engine power and torque as the PCM is able to optimize the opening of the intake valves to match the engine conditions"

[goodfella16]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 I haven't read much about vvt manipulation. Is it a parameter that is fairly safe and straightforward to work with? I can't even remember reading much about it in gen 1 threads.

id suggest starting off with an OTS map that matches what your current MODS are (because this limits the degree the VVT can help as it depends on ur mods) you can tweak the timing a few degrees and log and see the difference

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Ok, so I've been working on tuning my 2871 with my 3.5"inlet/intake (no more crappy corksport "ramair" ftw!!!!) and I am finally getting stuff dialed in. I do have sluggish spool time, but I've read that leaning out and timing will help (have to wait for help to do timing).

So, my AFRS are fairly stable, but I'm not sureif they're quite stable enough to start tweaking, which I guess means another maf cal. My question is, do I have to reset the ecu and drive around town for 50 miles without getting into boost, like the first time, or is that initially just done so your car doesn't go boom?

Or, do you think my AFRs are stable enough to start a bit of leanige? BTW, I am targeting 11.4.

Oh, and I will increase boost a bit soon, and I know that my boost curve isn't perfect yet, but it's very much under control and I just need to tweak WGDC a bit.

One more thing, my maf cal has a slight dip in g/s around 120g/s. Because there is no breaking points near this value, do you think it may have been a copy and paste error? Because, I based this calibration off of Joel's, and his has no dip... We were working on this on my laptop in bright sunlight during the columbia MO meat last week so it is quite possible.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Ok, so I've been working on tuning my 2871 with my 3.5"inlet/intake (no more crappy corksport "ramair" ftw!!!!) and I am finally getting stuff dialed in. I do have sluggish spool time, but I've read that leaning out and timing will help (have to wait for help to do timing). So, my AFRS are fairly stable, but I'm not sureif they're quite stable enough to start tweaking, which I guess means another maf cal. My question is, do I have to reset the ecu and drive around town for 50 miles without getting into boost, like the first time, or is that initially just done so your car doesn't go boom? Or, do you think my AFRs are stable enough to start a bit of leanige? BTW, I am targeting 11.4. Oh, and I will increase boost a bit soon, and I know that my boost curve isn't perfect yet, but it's very much under control and I just need to tweak WGDC a bit. One more thing, my maf cal has a slight dip in g/s around 120g/s. Because there is no breaking points near this value, do you think it may have been a copy and paste error? Because, I based this calibration off of Joel's, and his has no dip... We were working on this on my laptop in bright sunlight during the columbia MO meat last week so it is quite possible.

CK, It is only my opinion, but given you have a good deal of new hardware on your cal (I would be tempted to mash the throttle if I went BT too), I would take it easy for 50 or so miles, let your trims settle, and do a complete maf calibration.

Again, if you need a hand, I would be more than happy to help.

Congratulations on a successful install, and inching closer to your goals.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Ok, another boring 50 fucking miles, here I come.

And to clarify, my vacillating AFRs are a result of a non perfect calibration, correct?

What about that dip in the maf cal table? Does that seem like a mistake to you? Think about it. If Joel's original maf numbers showed a linear progression, and there is no break point near that value, and everything in each section is multiplied by the same number, then doesn't that have to be an error?

Lastly, I can't stand my forge bpv. With the ram air it was so muffled that you couldn't hear it make that horrible clinking sound. Now, every time I let off or switch gears it sounds like Mario hitting a question mark and getting acoin. It's fucking atrocious!.. just sayin.

[rfinkle2]

Your afr's could be a result of your tables, and / or the maf.

I'm not sure if there is an error or not. I'm pretty sure that if you can get a decent maf log, we can get that bitch spot on though.

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Ok, another boring 50 fucking miles, here I come. And to clarify, my vacillating AFRs are a result of a non perfect calibration, correct? What about that dip in the maf cal table? Does that seem like a mistake to you? Think about it. If Joel's original maf numbers showed a linear progression, and there is no break point near that value, and everything in each section is multiplied by the same number, then doesn't that have to be an error? Lastly, I can't stand my forge bpv. With the ram air it was so muffled that you couldn't hear it make that horrible clinking sound. Now, every time I let off or switch gears it sounds like Mario hitting a question mark and getting acoin. It's fucking atrocious!.. just sayin.

On a different note, I installed my Grimmspeed, and it seems to make quite a bit difference in the ability of the car to maintain a nice smooth boost curve.

I'm really close to dialing it in, and will post logs and the tables when I get it to where I want it.

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Ok, another boring 50 fucking miles, here I come. And to clarify, my vacillating AFRs are a result of a non perfect calibration, correct? What about that dip in the maf cal table? Does that seem like a mistake to you? Think about it. If Joel's original maf numbers showed a linear progression, and there is no break point near that value, and everything in each section is multiplied by the same number, then doesn't that have to be an error? Lastly, I can't stand my forge bpv. With the ram air it was so muffled that you couldn't hear it make that horrible clinking sound. Now, every time I let off or switch gears it sounds like Mario hitting a question mark and getting acoin. It's fucking atrocious!.. just sayin.

I'd like to contribute to this.....

So after doing what appeared to be a proper maf cal.......-8 to 2.3 LTFT after 40 ish miles...I finally thought i had nabbed the MAF cal....then what do you know CEL...system too lean.....Soooooooo.....Back to my original setup until i can become a expert.....I am fine with -5 ltft LOL.....

And your BOV sounds real similar to mine...i feel your pain....hows the beast running though

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think that those trims should cause a CEL... And did u do three calibrations? Usually it takes around three to get it dialed in.

And no Jason, the car is not running well enough yet IMO. I was spiking at first, but once I tightened my new 14psi WGA I have perfect control over boost, but spool up is very slow. I can't get third to hit 19 much earlier than 3.9krpm... Looking at all the rest of the data in my logs and doing some reading leads me to believe that the problem is that I am too rich w not enough timing because my timing down low was based off a ko4, not a 2871. So Joel and I are going to work on it Monday.

I am going to do one more maf revision tomorrow as well and see if that gets my afrs a bit more consistent. They aren't bad now, but they could be better, and if they were I'd feel a lot more comfortable leaning the car out.

[JS + MS3]

One of the members is helping out with tuning. I don't know if I'm allow to say who he is, so I won't say it, but he's awesome! We are into 2nd revision.

Here are the datalogs for the original map and the 2nd revision map.

Both 3rd gear WOT.

My stock fp is holding it alright.. thankfully..

I've already placed an order of Autotech internal, and it is expected to be shipped out in 2 weeks. So.. I'm taking it easy on my car right now. Only went WOT to do the datalog.

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think that those trims should cause a CEL... And did u do three calibrations? Usually it takes around three to get it dialed in. And no Jason, the car is not running well enough yet IMO. I was spiking at first, but once I tightened my new 14psi WGA I have perfect control over boost, but spool up is very slow. I can't get third to hit 19 much earlier than 3.9krpm... Looking at all the rest of the data in my logs and doing some reading leads me to believe that the problem is that I am too rich w not enough timing because my timing down low was based off a ko4, not a 2871. So Joel and I are going to work on it Monday. I am going to do one more maf revision tomorrow as well and see if that gets my afrs a bit more consistent. They aren't bad now, but they could be better, and if they were I'd feel a lot more comfortable leaning the car out.

I hear you Keith,

I have my AFR's back at a level of normality again and my LTFT is -8 at idle and -.3 and -.5 at part throttle....Im content with the car pulling some fuel.... Now I'm working on some timing ...and trying to get rid of another boost spike that I ended up creating....Having to really drop the WGDC from 2500-3500....Starting to wonder if I am over working the stock solenoid...

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by bewsted I hear you Keith, I have my AFR's back at a level of normality again and my LTFT is -8 at idle and -.3 and -.5 at part throttle....Im content with the car pulling some fuel.... Now I'm working on some timing ...and trying to get rid of another boost spike that I ended up creating....Having to really drop the WGDC from 2500-3500....Starting to wonder if I am over working the stock solenoid...

I have found the following to work well, and keep spikes @ bay.

in the trl - x gear tables:

2500 rpm = 2.12 load
3000 rpm = 2.12 load
3500 rpm = 2.25 load
4000 rpm - redline = 2.3 load

[bewsted]

I will have to take a peak at my last log and see where my TRL was ending up on them....Still curious to as if there is any corrolation to have the TRL being set "much" higher than the load your achieving? Or is it just the "roof" for load you can achieve?

[rfinkle2]

I have been experimenting with the comment Braden made as to those tables, and if you look @ some of the guys' logs, it is possible to go over the limits.

In my experience, the higher you set that value, the more likely you are to get spikes, especially in the spool region (much like Braden was referring to).

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I have been experimenting with the comment Braden made as to those tables, and if you look @ some of the guys' logs, it is possible to go over the limits. In my experience, the higher you set that value, the more likely you are to get spikes, especially in the spool region (much like Braden was referring to).

I have my req x gear load set to 3.00 in every gear but 1st.

I only see spikes of .5, if you would call that a spike. But i think if you dial in your boost dynamics than you wont have a problem with spiking.

[rfinkle2]

Agreed. It is getting the right combination of all of the tables for your particular mods that is the key, @ least imo.

[goodfella16]

ya, ive noticed ive set mine trl to 2.25 up to about 2.3 and ive noticed anything over 2.5 i get some boost spikes, load gets outa wack sometimes, afr leans out sometimes, and ultimately some knock..ive set my trl to 2.24 from 3k to 4k and alota that went away

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Ok, so I've been working on tuning my 2871 with my 3.5"inlet/intake (no more crappy corksport "ramair" ftw!!!!) and I am finally getting stuff dialed in. I do have sluggish spool time, but I've read that leaning out and timing will help (have to wait for help to do timing). So, my AFRS are fairly stable, but I'm not sureif they're quite stable enough to start tweaking, which I guess means another maf cal. My question is, do I have to reset the ecu and drive around town for 50 miles without getting into boost, like the first time, or is that initially just done so your car doesn't go boom? Or, do you think my AFRs are stable enough to start a bit of leanige? BTW, I am targeting 11.4. Oh, and I will increase boost a bit soon, and I know that my boost curve isn't perfect yet, but it's very much under control and I just need to tweak WGDC a bit. One more thing, my maf cal has a slight dip in g/s around 120g/s. Because there is no breaking points near this value, do you think it may have been a copy and paste error? Because, I based this calibration off of Joel's, and his has no dip... We were working on this on my laptop in bright sunlight during the columbia MO meat last week so it is quite possible.

I was back reading a little on this thread....


I'm feeling pretty sure that you had a copy and paste error or something.


Think about it this way. Your MAF VOLTAGE increases with the amount of air coming in (Or the amount of air that the meter senses I guess is the correct way to say it.) So the higher the voltage reading the higher the air coming in. So it should really do nothing but go up as you go into higher voltage.

I ran into this the other day when I was doing my MAF cal. Had the same sort of scenario. Trims were reading different at 2 breakpoints. Applied the proper multiplier and then had this type of scaling that you did. So i did 2 more logs and tried the CAL again and this time the LTFT fell into the breakpoints. Otherwise slight improvision can solve it LOL.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Thanks Jason! While people have been super helpful with answering my Qs, that one seems to have been skipped over more than once.

I figured the same thing, but wanted to make sure since I am still learning this stuff!

I am about 35 miles in to a 50 mile light throttle period to adjust maf. I will look into this when I make the adjustment tomorrow.

I am also going to tune with Joel tomorrow, so hopefully we can get some quicker spoolage action too!..

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I have found the following to work well, and keep spikes @ bay. in the trl - x gear tables: 2500 rpm = 2.12 load 3000 rpm = 2.12 load 3500 rpm = 2.25 load 4000 rpm - redline = 2.3 load

I have found the following to work well. 3000+ = 3 load

[bewsted]

Me and joel did some tweaking on what i was running yesterday.....I had go back and redo some shit but it seems to be pulling fairly hard again.....a good sign to me is breaking the tires lose at the top of 2nd lol

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Thanks Jason! While people have been super helpful with answering my Qs, that one seems to have been skipped over more than once. I figured the same thing, but wanted to make sure since I am still learning this stuff! I am about 35 miles in to a 50 mile light throttle period to adjust maf. I will look into this when I make the adjustment tomorrow. I am also going to tune with Joel tomorrow, so hopefully we can get some quicker spoolage action too!.. I have found the following to work well. 3000+ = 3 load

If everyone in the thread had a big turbo, I would imagine that would work well for them too.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Actually finkle, I set it like that long before I went BT.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Actually finkle, I set it like that long before I went BT.

Without tweaks to the wgdc or boost dynamics table, I believe many cars would spike @ those trl levels.