Gen 2 Cobb ATR discussion

[rfinkle2]

Can you post a pic of your wgdc boost error table?

Also, what is your wgdc boost ramp high limiter set to?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Bucker holy crap you give that table a LOT of authority rob. I run something like .07 .05 .04 .03 .02 0.0 -.04 -.11 -.20 -.45 ?? ?? I might have to give it some more power it increase WGDC...

I would prefer that the ecu do most of the work for me.

Also, changes in temperature will have less affect on the tune if you allow the error comp tables more authority.

Another interesting observation... If you have a value of 90 in your wgdc table, and you want to see less than 100%, you will have to set your wgdc boost error ramp limiter <10.

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I would prefer that the ecu do most of the work for me. Also, changes in temperature will have less affect on the tune if you allow the error comp tables more authority. Another interesting observation... If you have a value of 90 in your wgdc table, and you want to see less than 100%, you will have to set your wgdc boost error ramp limiter <10.

Yeah, the ramp limiter will do that to ya. I don't care about 100's though, I got those when it is over 100º outside still, but when it was 70º I only saw high 80's WGDC to meet the same targets. Just shows how much of a difference ambient temps have.

[f-castrillo]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Can you post a pic of your wgdc boost error table? Also, what is your wgdc boost ramp high limiter set to?

I attached my current WGD Boost Error Comp table. Also, my high limiter is set to 30%, so that WGDC would max out at a conservative 85%.

I'm going to try rebuilding my map from scratch by pasting my tables into the v102a maps like mentioned earlier. Perhaps there was some kind of mixup in non-table data that might be messing with my map's ability to do anything.

[Bucker]

Why do you want WGDC maxed at 85? There is no negative to letting it go higher.

[f-castrillo]

I'm considering allowing it to max at 90 or 95%, but it helps me sleep easier at night knowing that my little k04 isn't going to melt by being exposed to face-melting exhaust temps from allowing 100% WGDC.

[f-castrillo]

When tuning via boost-targeting, I know we're supposed to zero out the Load Dynamics and WG Duty Load Error Comp tables. However, are we supposed to zero the Load Error High/Low Limits tables as well? Or leave them stock?

I have this gut feeling that I shouldn't be leaving the Load Error high/low limits zeroed out, but rather match them to the Boost Error Comp High/Low limits. If that flowsheet of the new Wastegate tables is anything to go by, it seems that the Load Error High/Low Limits are still being factored into boost comp calculations, regardless whether or not the WG Duty Load Error Comp table is zeroed out or not.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by f-castrillo When tuning via boost-targeting, I know we're supposed to zero out the Load Dynamics and WG Duty Load Error Comp tables. However, are we supposed to zero the Load Error High/Low Limits tables as well? Or leave them stock? I have this gut feeling that I shouldn't be leaving the Load Error high/low limits zeroed out, but rather match them to the Boost Error Comp High/Low limits. If that flowsheet of the new Wastegate tables is anything to go by, it seems that the Load Error High/Low Limits are still being factored into boost comp calculations, regardless whether or not the WG Duty Load Error Comp table is zeroed out or not.

The wastegate duty boost error comp table is added to the load limiter to give the final wgdc calculation.

Without any load adjustments due to the load comp and dynamics tables being set to 0, the load limiter calc. should be zero.

You could leave the values as is, or zero them.

[bewsted]

Werd....really not much too boost tuning....Dial in your Boost....Dial in your Fueling...Dial in your timing your done.

[f-castrillo]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 The wastegate duty boost error comp table is added to the load limiter to give the final wgdc calculation. Without any load adjustments due to the load comp and dynamics tables being set to 0, the load limiter calc. should be zero. You could leave the values as is, or zero them.

I set my WG Duty Load Error Ramp Limiter tables to match the Boost Error ramp limiter values, and now my ECU is finally doing what its supposed to do and adding/subtracting WGDC. My latest log shows me holding to boost targets all the way up to redline.

Try setting your Load Error ramp limiters to zero, and you should see logged WGDC hold to commanded values, nothing more, nothing less.

After an unsuccessful load tune and having trouble with boost tuning, I finally figured out how to make the ECU do what I expected

Sent from my Thunderbolt (Tapatalk)

[rfinkle2]

Great news!.

That is some great detective work.

And NO, you can't make me set my load ramp limiters to zero.

(I stand corrected, btw)

[f-castrillo]

Now I wish I could figure out that issue I had with load targeting. Although I do like being able to target x.xx paid and be done with it.

I'm considering upping my targets to 19 psi in the meat of it, and tapering down to 17 psi by redline. I might be able to get away with it with my current mods

Sent from my Thunderbolt (Tapatalk)

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by f-castrillo Now I wish I could figure out that issue I had with load targeting. Although I do like being able to target x.xx paid and be done with it. I'm considering upping my targets to 19 psi in the meat of it, and tapering down to 17 psi by redline. I might be able to get away with it with my current mods Sent from my Thunderbolt (Tapatalk)

On pump gas (no e-85 and no WMI), the highest hp dynos I've seen for the stock K04 are around 18.5 psi tunes.

[PapaSmurf]

i dynoed 302whp 322wtq (mustang dyno) on pump gas and no meth. 20psi tapering to 17.5.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MicaBlueMS3 i dynoed 302whp 322wtq (mustang dyno) on pump gas and no meth. 20psi tapering to 17.5.

OK. Today is not my day. LOL.

Mica's numbers are really good (exceptional).

[bewsted]

Happy mustangs are happy Rob @MicaBlueMS3!

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by bewsted Happy mustangs are happy Rob!

Hater e85 nubs are hating hahah

man that dyno in infamous for reading low so IDGAF!!!

is till made over 300whp on the k04 without meth

oh and we will find out how happy that dyno was on the 12th, jumping on the dyno here with dustin. Tuning for my water/meth and than im going to throw in some e85 and tune for that.

be on the look out for a thread.

im guessing at least 320whp since i romp on a gen1 that puts those numbers down on the local dyno here. hahaha

[rfinkle2]

I'm jealous of the e-85 availability in other states.

The stations are so far away from me here in NJ, that I'd have to fill up again by the time I got home FML.

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by MicaBlueMS3 Hater e85 nubs are hating hahah man that dyno in infamous for reading low so IDGAF!!! is till made over 300whp on the k04 without meth oh and we will find out how happy that dyno was on the 12th, jumping on the dyno here with dustin. Tuning for my water/meth and than im going to throw in some e85 and tune for that. be on the look out for a thread. im guessing at least 320whp since i romp on a gen1 that puts those numbers down on the local dyno here. hahaha

After the FMIC goes on I will be hitting teh dyno as well...But I dont anticipate anything but maybe 300/350-360

[PapaSmurf]

You need a core?

I'd sell you my UR core, debating to pick up the Mishimoto limited edition gold core.

[bewsted]

No i dont need a core...and if you buy a gold IC your such a homo.

[f-castrillo]

Instead of upping boost, maybe I'll try to further advance ignition timing. I don't want to go the meth route yet, though. Truthfully, I don't want to deal with remembering to fill up the reservoir lol.

How have you guys adjusted your maps to accomodate a downpipe? I will be ordering one soon, and I just want to know how to prep my map for when it gets installed. Lower WGDC a few ticks? Advance/retard timing by x degrees?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by bewsted No i dont need a core...and if you buy a gold IC your such a homo.

Dude it matches my wheels perfect and its like 3 inches taller and 2 inches wider. Ill need that when im running 30 psi haha

[bewsted]

N before you run 18 psi

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by f-castrillo Instead of upping boost, maybe I'll try to further advance ignition timing. I don't want to go the meth route yet, though. Truthfully, I don't want to deal with remembering to fill up the reservoir lol. How have you guys adjusted your maps to accomodate a downpipe? I will be ordering one soon, and I just want to know how to prep my map for when it gets installed. Lower WGDC a few ticks? Advance/retard timing by x degrees?

When I added the downpipe, I started fresh from a stage2 ots map. The stage2 map will get you a lot closer than starting from stage1.

But ya you would need lower wgdc's, and can run boost earlier in the rpm range, also more timing.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by atvfreek When I added the downpipe, I started fresh from a stage2 ots map. The stage2 map will get you a lot closer than starting from stage1. But ya you would need lower wgdc's, and can run boost earlier in the rpm range, also more timing.

Have you altered your knock offset tables to compensate for engine noise @ high revs?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Have you altered your knock offset tables to compensate for engine noise @ high revs?

No I wasn't sure which way to go on those, I believe they're at .8. I did change my decay rate A+B to 200 from 640 . So it adds timing back quicker.

Did you adjust yours, and if so, to what?

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Have you altered your knock offset tables to compensate for engine noise @ high revs?

I've had to alter mine during peak TRQ....

Could also have to do with being fully mounted me thinks.

[rfinkle2]

No I wasn't sure which way to go on those, I believe they're at .8. I did change my decay rate A+B to 200 from 640 . So it adds timing back quicker. Did you adjust yours, and if so, to what?

Increasing the values in the table decreases the knock sensor sensitivity.

cld12pk2go recommends these settings:

hyperliked to a good thread concerning timing.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...tml#post937739

[Dano]

Originally Posted by atvfreek No I wasn't sure which way to go on those, I believe they're at .8. I did change my decay rate A+B to 200 from 640 . So it adds timing back quicker. Did you adjust yours, and if so, to what?

1.1 from 6K up and 1.5 load up is a good place to start. then IP horizontally and vertically by 1 row.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 1.1 from 6K up and 1.5 load up is a good place to start. then IP horizontally and vertically by 1 row.

Thanks! I'll give those a try on my next revision.

Sent from my MB300 using Tapatalk

[Dano]

just looked at 12pk code which is about the same but looks like he IPed or at least altered the offset further down the RPM range.

[Teal]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Can you post a pic of your wgdc boost error table? Also, what is your wgdc boost ramp high limiter set to?

So in my own tuning journey lately, I havn't really been posting much on the forums. However, I was running in this hot weather and I had tried zeroing out my WGDCBEC [<- lol] and tuning my WGDC tables. I did some trial and error and ran a spreadsheet to calculate my boost error and I adjusted the WGDC tables accordingly. Peachy! But of course next couple days I was under my boost targets by about 1psi, sometimes hitting them, sometimes not... So I caught up with these last posts and started looking into my boost error tables and threw in some values for -9.00 to -1.00. Wow what a difference, last night started to over-boost by a pound or so at least. I was aggressive with the values because I wanted to see the effects. I had in about 0.08 for 1psi (on purpose!) and yeah that'll do it. I backed them down for the drive to work this morning (cooler temp even) and now I am over by about 1.8lbs with 0.03 in the -1.00psi column.... that doesnt seem that crazy? My ramp limiter was set at 15%... could this be contributing to the overboosts? Are my WGDC values just too high? (I think they are very high, but that's what I needed in the hot weather to reach 17.25psi)

Anyways, always fun to learn something new on here and then spend a week playing with it :-)

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Teal So in my own tuning journey lately, I havn't really been posting much on the forums. However, I was running in this hot weather and I had tried zeroing out my WGDCBEC [<- lol] and tuning my WGDC tables. I did some trial and error and ran a spreadsheet to calculate my boost error and I adjusted the WGDC tables accordingly. Peachy! But of course next couple days I was under my boost targets by about 1psi, sometimes hitting them, sometimes not... So I caught up with these last posts and started looking into my boost error tables and threw in some values for -9.00 to -1.00. Wow what a difference, last night started to over-boost by a pound or so at least. I was aggressive with the values because I wanted to see the effects. I had in about 0.08 for 1psi (on purpose!) and yeah that'll do it. I backed them down for the drive to work this morning (cooler temp even) and now I am over by about 1.8lbs with 0.03 in the -1.00psi column.... that doesnt seem that crazy? My ramp limiter was set at 15%... could this be contributing to the overboosts? Are my WGDC values just too high? (I think they are very high, but that's what I needed in the hot weather to reach 17.25psi) Anyways, always fun to learn something new on here and then spend a week playing with it :-)

You may try limiting the high boost ramp limit to a value 10 AND the high load limit ramp to a value of 10.

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Teal So in my own tuning journey lately, I havn't really been posting much on the forums. However, I was running in this hot weather and I had tried zeroing out my WGDCBEC [<- lol] and tuning my WGDC tables. I did some trial and error and ran a spreadsheet to calculate my boost error and I adjusted the WGDC tables accordingly. Peachy! But of course next couple days I was under my boost targets by about 1psi, sometimes hitting them, sometimes not... So I caught up with these last posts and started looking into my boost error tables and threw in some values for -9.00 to -1.00. Wow what a difference, last night started to over-boost by a pound or so at least. I was aggressive with the values because I wanted to see the effects. I had in about 0.08 for 1psi (on purpose!) and yeah that'll do it. I backed them down for the drive to work this morning (cooler temp even) and now I am over by about 1.8lbs with 0.03 in the -1.00psi column.... that doesnt seem that crazy? My ramp limiter was set at 15%... could this be contributing to the overboosts? Are my WGDC values just too high? (I think they are very high, but that's what I needed in the hot weather to reach 17.25psi) Anyways, always fun to learn something new on here and then spend a week playing with it :-)

Remember that your WGDC settings in the heat will net significantly higher boost pressure when it cools off, so I personally think it is better to undershoot targets on WGDC and allow the compensation table to correct it for you in the heat so that you are less likely to be overboosting in a couple months.

[Teal]

Originally Posted by Bucker Remember that your WGDC settings in the heat will net significantly higher boost pressure when it cools off, so I personally think it is better to undershoot targets on WGDC and allow the compensation table to correct it for you in the heat so that you are less likely to be overboosting in a couple months.

And this is what I'm learning :-p Now, I knew that they were inflated when I adjusted them, however I didn't pay enough attention to my error comp tables.

From the point should I bother adjusting my WGDC table as is or should I reduce all my values to about 20 and then retune from there? Or OTS? I guess I'm getting a bit indecisive as to what to adjust first. I guess I could set my underboost error table values to zero and then tune the WGDC from scratch? Just be very conservative and then stick in my boost error comp values. (.2 to 0.0 interpolated, a tad higher at -1.0psi if needed)?

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Teal And this is what I'm learning :-p Now, I knew that they were inflated when I adjusted them, however I didn't pay enough attention to my error comp tables. From the point should I bother adjusting my WGDC table as is or should I reduce all my values to about 20 and then retune from there? Or OTS? I guess I'm getting a bit indecisive as to what to adjust first. I guess I could set my underboost error table values to zero and then tune the WGDC from scratch? Just be very conservative and then stick in my boost error comp values. (.2 to 0.0 interpolated, a tad higher at -1.0psi if needed)?

Just get a good log, look at the WGDC in the log (as long as the boost is on target) and enter that into your WGDC table. That will get you pretty close for current conditions and your WGDC Boost comp table will do the fine tuning for you.

[Teal]

Originally Posted by Bucker Just get a good log, look at the WGDC in the log (as long as the boost is on target) and enter that into your WGDC table. That will get you pretty close for current conditions and your WGDC Boost comp table will do the fine tuning for you.

Right. But from where I sit now, my WGDC tables are going to be a bit high for the targeted boost. If I reduce the tables I have right now, should I zero out the error comp and use those values? Or keep error comp at the OTS point and let it do its thing? I am hitting my gargets but not until after a slow spike on spool up (close to 19psi then slowly it finds 17.2 by 5k rpm or so). I have lots of things I'd like to try and might try, just looking to see how others are going about it.

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Teal Right. But from where I sit now, my WGDC tables are going to be a bit high for the targeted boost. If I reduce the tables I have right now, should I zero out the error comp and use those values? Or keep error comp at the OTS point and let it do its thing? I am hitting my gargets but not until after a slow spike on spool up (close to 19psi then slowly it finds 17.2 by 5k rpm or so). I have lots of things I'd like to try and might try, just looking to see how others are going about it.

I have my WGDC set within 1º of logged WGDC and have not messed with the OTS Boost error comp table (I am going to give it more authority next time I flash a map though). If you are overshooting your targets you need to drop WGDC.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Bucker Remember that your WGDC settings in the heat will net significantly higher boost pressure when it cools off, so I personally think it is better to undershoot targets on WGDC and allow the compensation table to correct it for you in the heat so that you are less likely to be overboosting in a couple months.

^^^^^^ This.

IMO its always better to undeshoot WGDC and allow the comp tables to increase it than to overshoot and overboost or have WGDC cut which loses all that built up pressure. You then have to start over building PSI which causes more boost oscillation. The system is very fast and a great system but it can't make lost pressure, via the wastgate, re-appear instantly.