Gen 2 Cobb ATR discussion

[Nataphen]

I'm starting this thread because a few people, myself included, have been straying onto this topic in various threads. I hope this helps to keep me from derailing anymore of your posts!

Some very helpful tuning threads. I recommend spending some time studying these in conjunction with the ATR help file before you go all in on your tuning.

HOW TO CALIBRATE YOUR MAF! With An Example

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...l-stuff-68239/ aka danos-boost-tuning-101-cool-stuff

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-thread-75524/ aka ziggos-boost-tuning-thread

Should we increase timing?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Nataphen I'm starting this thread because a few people, myself included, have been straying onto this topic in various threads. I hope this helps to keep me from derailing anymore of your posts!

Good idea Nate...

As far as WGDC and the BCS maxing, please see this link... and ignore the bickering between me and some trolls. (post#35 if permalink fails)

the grimmspeed 3 port boost solenoid (EBC)

[Nataphen]

I've been thinking about making the switch to a 3 port, so that's some good info. I wonder why we have so much trouble with the BCS going to high WGDC, and gen 1s don't. I would assume that it's the same part. I guess that they could have changed it to a more finicky one along with the more picky fueling ECU logic that causes us to max out pumps more easily on gen 2. Gen 1 seems easier to tune, but gen 2 appears to have a little better airflow.

Someone needs to tear both motors apart side-by-side, and measure/test/examine every part, then record all the differences so that some of these mysteries may be solved. Any takers?

[JS + MS3]

Great!

I'm still in the process of reading that helpfile.. I'm starting to get it a little though I recommend every ms3 owner to read it since it's really interesting and informative.

The only thing I'm a little confused about is how to data log with ATR in the car properly. :hide:

[Nataphen]

I have to order the dongle connector before I can DL with ATR. I've just be doing it with the AP and transferring, so actually using ATR will make it much easier.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by JS + MS3 Great! I'm still in the process of reading that helpfile.. I'm starting to get it a little though I recommend every ms3 owner to read it since it's really interesting and informative. The only thing I'm a little confused about is how to data log with ATR in the car properly. :hide:

LOL @ hiding... not from me or Nate...

THE BELOW MAY HAVE JUST BEEN MY LAPTOP FML:

Anyway, there are some bugs using the "pass thru", and it isn't very easy to stay connected right now, so I might wait.

I've used it, and it will be great when you can log to your hard drive, but I've been logging to the AP because of the bugs.

[JS + MS3]

Hahaha.. yeah I wanted to hide from members who will flame me saying "search you noob"!

Anyway, so I guess I just do the data logging with my AP and transfer it to my home computer and work from there?

I read in the helpfile that I need to do the data logging from certain RPM to certain RPM for MAF Calibration and other things. Can you guys help me out how to do on that?

OR is it just like doing regular datalogging like 3rd gear 2500 to redline?

[Nataphen]

You don't need to calibrate your MAF unless the STFTs and LTFTs are further off than the margin of error given in the help file. If they are, there is a great how-to sticky on MSF in the Cobb ATR support section. If you want to calibrate your WOT AFR, DJ made a post that finkle linked to a couple of days ago about that. I'm sure he can dig it up for you quickly if you need it.

On a power pull, I usually pull from 3k in 3rd or 4th. 4th is the best, but there aren't many times around here that I can safely accelerate to 110+MPH. Log with the AP, plug the AP to the PC, and transfer your datalogs to your PC with AP manager. Use Xcel, Open Office, or ATR to view the datalog.

[indianaryan]

Originally Posted by JS + MS3 Hahaha.. yeah I wanted to hide from members who will flame me saying "search you noob"! Anyway, so I guess I just do the data logging with my AP and transfer it to my home computer and work from there? I read in the helpfile that I need to do the data logging from certain RPM to certain RPM for MAF Calibration and other things. Can you guys help me out how to do on that? OR is it just like doing regular datalogging like 3rd gear 2500 to redline?

Don't ever be afraid to ask questions here. This is a place to learn, not to make fun of people. Don't let anybody keep you from doing that. Most of the time the questions you ask are probably the same questions that other people are too afraid to ask.

For now I would just do some normal datalogging from 3k to redline or just before redline. Post your logs here and we'll help you decipher them and help you know what to look for.

For now, I would follow this simple guideline:
http://accessecu.com/support/docs/su...0Guidance.html

This is pretty basic, but it's a good place to start.

[rfinkle2]

@ your service sir...link from dj to come...

italics from atr helpfile:

This comparison only relates if you have an intake system that is other than stock; if your dictated A/F is 11.0 and you measure 12.0 in the exhaust stream, then you will want to add (+) grams/sec for the MAF voltage that corresponds for that RPM and load point. The specific adjustment for the above situation should be multiplying the corresponding MAF flow grams/sec by 1.0909 = 12/11. You should be measuring very close to the same Lambda (A/F Ratio) in your exhaust stream that you have dictated in your Fuel OL/WOT Commanded EQ (No Knock) table. Your trim values will always adjust back and forth (+/-); let them, that is what they are supposed to do. You should not have to modify the MAF Calibration table if you have a stock vehicle. We highly suggest you do not spend excessive time tuning your MAF Calibration table just so the A/F output matches exactly what is dictated in the Primary Fuel table.
You will chase your tail getting it spot on then you will fill up at a different gas station that will have a different quality fuel and the targets may be slightly
off.


Could not find exact post from DJ (aka dustin)
but, thanks to @dougefresh_ for this great thread...

HOW TO CALIBRATE YOUR MAF! With An Example

[fywdyl]

Do you guys use a laptop to log or play around w/ ATR? I usually take my logs home to my desktop before messing around w/ stuff. Would a netbook work or is that too weak?

[JS + MS3]

^ They just said there's a bug with using ATR in the car or something. Just do the log with your AP and transfer it to your home computer.

Originally Posted by indianaryan Don't ever be afraid to ask questions here. This is a place to learn, not to make fun of people. Don't let anybody keep you from doing that. Most of the time the questions you ask are probably the same questions that other people are too afraid to ask. For now I would just do some normal datalogging from 3k to redline or just before redline. Post your logs here and we'll help you decipher them and help you know what to look for. For now, I would follow this simple guideline: http://accessecu.com/support/docs/su...0Guidance.html This is pretty basic, but it's a good place to start.

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 @ your service sir...link from dj to come... italics from atr helpfile: This comparison only relates if you have an intake system that is other than stock; if your dictated A/F is 11.0 and you measure 12.0 in the exhaust stream, then you will want to add (+) grams/sec for the MAF voltage that corresponds for that RPM and load point. The specific adjustment for the above situation should be multiplying the corresponding MAF flow grams/sec by 1.0909 = 12/11. You should be measuring very close to the same Lambda (A/F Ratio) in your exhaust stream that you have dictated in your Fuel OL/WOT Commanded EQ (No Knock) table. Your trim values will always adjust back and forth (+/-); let them, that is what they are supposed to do. You should not have to modify the MAF Calibration table if you have a stock vehicle. We highly suggest you do not spend excessive time tuning your MAF Calibration table just so the A/F output matches exactly what is dictated in the Primary Fuel table. You will chase your tail getting it spot on then you will fill up at a different gas station that will have a different quality fuel and the targets may be slightly off. Could not find exact post from DJ (aka dustin) but, thanks to for this great thread... HOW TO CALIBRATE YOUR MAF! With An Example

Thank you very much guys!!

Will do a proper data logging this weekend and post it here to see if I need to calibrate anything with ATR.

I am waiting for that autotech internal to be available again on April 30th... so it should be more fun after I get that baby in.

[rfinkle2]

As far as the bug, it may have been just my laptop. I thought I remembered reading about a bug, but cannot find the thread now. I COULD HAVE BEEN MISTAKEN, AND THERE MAY BE NO BUG IN THE PASS THRU COMMUNICATION...sorry

You guys can always try logging to the laptop and lmk how you make out.

MAKE SURE YOU LOG 1st, and not flash. You don't want to get .5 way through a reflash and lose ecu communication.

[JS + MS3]

Just did two datalogging during my lunchtime lol

im currently running Stage2+cpN+TIH 91 v100 BT Safe Mode map. My mods are in my sig.

It was 3rd gear pull from around 3000rpm to almost redline.

[JS + MS3]

I'm seeing consistent KR from 5000rpm to 6000rpm in datalog21.. Isn't this really dangerous?? And I'm only getting 14 psi when its targeting 15 psi.. hmm

[indianaryan]

Your KR is under 2, so it's nothing to be too concerned about. Your AFR looks like it's following the fuel curve on the 91 OTS maps like it should. Your LTFT's are 3.91, so they're within the +/- 8%. It doesn't hurt to do a MAF calibration though. You might consider doing that as your next step. IIRC the safe maps target 12-14 psi. If you are actually targeting 15, you're not far from it. When you're ready to start using ATR to make adjustments to your map, you can bump up the WGDC% to help you hit your boost targets.

I would suggest doing a Maf calibration next. Take a look at the link that @rfinkle2 posted above and let us know if you need any help.

[JS + MS3]

Originally Posted by indianaryan Your KR is under 2, so it's nothing to be too concerned about. Your AFR looks like it's following the fuel curve on the 91 OTS maps like it should. Your LTFT's are 3.91, so they're within the +/- 8%. It doesn't hurt to do a MAF calibration though. You might consider doing that as your next step. IIRC the safe maps target 12-14 psi. If you are actually targeting 15, you're not far from it. When you're ready to start using ATR to make adjustments to your map, you can bump up the WGDC% to help you hit your boost targets. I would suggest doing a Maf calibration next. Take a look at the link that @rfinkle2 posted above and let us know if you need any help.

Got it. Thank you!

One question though, now with the safe mode, am I really SAFE to do a lot of spirited driving with many WOT? or should I take it easy until I get the fuel pump internal? Just curious. Because I can't stop driving my car hard now with the AP.

[indianaryan]

I would continue to drive it hard until see the FP drop. You'll feel it if it drops too low. It's not a huge deal. It just means you need to adjust your map or go back to the stock tune.

So yes, you're safe driving it hard. I doubt that you'll see the FP drop on the safe map. I would continue to drive the piss out of your car on the safe map until you feel comfortable getting into ATR and making changes to one of the maps. Personally, I started with the stage1 map, and "detuned" from there. You could do it that way, or you could take your stage2 safe map and increase the boost in small increments.

[JS + MS3]

man you make so much sense. thank you so much! lol

I think I'll start playing with the safe mode, just to be safe. :hide:

I'll ask some questions on this Saturday when I start playing with the map.. I'm gonna try to read the helpfile and other ATR related threads couple more times before I mess it up.

[wolly6973]

Make sure your fp is fine before you start romping on it all the time though.
I had fail fp even on the safe mode map.
I was only "safe" after I leaned out the map a little in ATR. Even then, I couldn't go WOT in 2nd.

[Nataphen]

Start by leaning out your AFR targets to about 11.9 from 3k+, this will help with power and fuel pressure. It's the single most helpful thing that you can do to keep your stock pump in check.

[triphop631]

Subbed...

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[atvfreek]

Good stuff so far guys. I too am completely addicted to ATR. Looking forward to learning tons more. haha

[rfinkle2]

I'd like to add essential links to using ATR if the guys and girls haven't already seen them...



http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...l-stuff-68239/ aka danos-boost-tuning-101-cool-stuff

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-thread-75524/ aka ziggos-boost-tuning-thread

Should we increase timing?

[Nataphen]

Very helpful links there, guys. I've picked up much information from those threads.

[wolly6973]

@rfinkle2 - Thanks for the timing thread, that was next on my research list...

[indianaryan]

Guys, do you think it would be beneficial to add all of these links to the op? Or maybe create a sticky listing them?

[Nataphen]

^Good idea. Thank you, sir.

[rfinkle2]

@FORZDA 1 replied to this thread and I trust his judgement for anyone interested in methanol injection.

I know some guys alreay have planned setups, but I think this link may help.

Meth Injection: What is Really Needed?

[Amazon]

Forzda? Oh yea, the guy that just popped his motor

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Amazon Forzda? Oh yea, the guy that just popped his motor

I'll let others decide whether his recommendations are valid or not.

He explains his catastrophic failure in the thread.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...nt-rods-77027/

[JacksonMS30]

^^ beat me to it...

Originally Posted by Amazon Forzda? Oh yea, the guy that just popped his motor

The meth had nothing to do with his motor popping...

[rfinkle2]

for reference, @djuosnteisn also blew his motor, and he is likely considered to be the best msf tuner.

EDIT: this was in no way, shape or form an effort to disparage DJ (Dustins) ability to tune the DISI motor.

It was simply an effort to note that things happen when pushing the limits of any platform, and to try and bring into context the shot taken @ Forzda earlier in the thread.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 for reference, @djuosnteisn also blew his motor, and he is likely considered to be the best msf "tuner".

He hydrolocked his motor on meth. That isn't exactly a tuning error. Meth kit install fail sure, but tuning fail no.

[wolly6973]

Last night I raised the knock sensor max to 7k, and thought I would report my results.

I have done 4 logs so far, and I get KR above 5900 rpm in all of them now.
I had a few hits right at 1 - 1.2, and the rest is all <1

FWIW I was getting some KR in the 3 - 5k range before (usually <.8).
I wonder if this is all false KE (hopefully)...
To check this I should just pull a few * of timing from 3k up and log right?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 Last night I raised the knock sensor max to 7k, and thought I would report my results. I have done 4 logs so far, and I get KR above 5900 rpm in all of them now. I had a few hits right at 1 - 1.2, and the rest is all <1 FWIW I was getting some KR in the 3 - 5k range before (usually <.8). I wonder if this is all false KE (hopefully)... To check this I should just pull a few * of timing from 3k up and log right?

That sounds 100% correct to me.

Please note the edit to my post concerning DJ above.

[JS + MS3]

Question, when I open up my stage2 safe mode map on ATR and look at the Boost Target table, the highest number is in the 100s. Did I do something wrong? Isn't my boost target ~15? lol

[wolly6973]

You need to enable standard units in ATR
Edit -> Configure Options -> Display -> standard units should be checked.

[JS + MS3]

Done. Thank you.

[Amazon]

My bad, I walked into the lady's bathroom on accident