How to scale the HPFP pressure sensor

[djuosnteisn]

Hahaha, not sure what to say. Deadman and Demon are working on the restrictor pills.

I have started work on a better design, though i was still feeling pretty shitty this weekend and didn't get as much done as i wanted. Lex has started working on some preliminary firmware.


Good things will be coming soon!

[Deadman]

im still @ work we had to ship a weldbox today so i didnt get a chance to have the pcs made. Will do my best this week.

[SilverDemon]

I went ahead and ordered a new M12x1.0 die, I want to have a fresh die when I make these parts for my fellow speeders!! How hard is it to remove the pressure relief valve?

[starscream]

Just wanna put out there, no matter what happens with this whether it helps us or not, this is what the mazdaspeed community is about. Coming together to fix shit/findout issues and solve them.

Kudos to all of you helping with this and figuring it out. Seriously I am pretty stoked and happy that I am apart of this non-Nazi-like board .

[socks]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon I went ahead and ordered a new M12x1.0 die, I want to have a fresh die when I make these parts for my fellow speeders!! How hard is it to remove the pressure relief valve?

Not easy. Not hard.

You have to take off the fuel rail gard and the high pressure fuel line.

I was taking my intake manifold off anyways, so i just went the extra step and removed the fuel rail.

[Deadman]

We are pretty busy on the Cobalt platform right now. I'd like to look into more markets, but I can't promise anything since we are already behind.

There are no larger injectors for the LNF yet. With our current fuel pressure changes, our injectors are good to 500whp clean. We have pushed to 530whp, but combustion quality is quickly decreasing.

-Matt


Just sharing some more info.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by Deadman We are pretty busy on the Cobalt platform right now. I'd like to look into more markets, but I can't promise anything since we are already behind. There are no larger injectors for the LNF yet. With our current fuel pressure changes, our injectors are good to 500whp clean. We have pushed to 530whp, but combustion quality is quickly decreasing. -Matt Just sharing some more info.

and some wanted info it is TY!

[Lex]

They are running into the diminishing returns of upping pressure on a part not designed for it and injectors are likely starting to have issues opening. What were the pressures these tests we done at?

Originally Posted by Deadman We are pretty busy on the Cobalt platform right now. I'd like to look into more markets, but I can't promise anything since we are already behind. There are no larger injectors for the LNF yet. With our current fuel pressure changes, our injectors are good to 500whp clean. We have pushed to 530whp, but combustion quality is quickly decreasing. -Matt Just sharing some more info.

[mkriebs]

ZZP's pressure was at 2750, which seems to be where most people are stopping on the Cobalts (ZZP, and Trifecta, the 2 tuners that have fuel pressure raised).

[djuosnteisn]

Damn.

We have to upgrade our sensors past 2100ish.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Damn. We have to upgrade our sensors past 2100ish.

get on top of it thun!

=)

[mkriebs]

Do your sensors top out? Or is it the fact the ECU just won't recognize it higher than a certain amount?

And yes, I was surprised to see you running such low pressures. Do you have injector upgrades yet?

[SilverDemon]

With the proper measurements, I can make an adapter that would fit most any sensor.
I think Mark found out how high the ECU can read.....

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Do your sensors top out? Or is it the fact the ECU just won't recognize it higher than a certain amount? And yes, I was surprised to see you running such low pressures. Do you have injector upgrades yet?

if you read thru all 8 pages of this thread you would know whats up.

read this entire thread, you will learn what u wanna know fast.

[mkriebs]

Do you have a voltage scale? IDK where to find one for mine, but it would be worth looking into. But, again I ask... is it an ECU limitation, or a sensor limitation? Our ECU (the GM LNF), is very restrictive, so I am used to questioning that.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Do you have a voltage scale? IDK where to find one for mine, but it would be worth looking into. But, again I ask... is it an ECU limitation, or a sensor limitation? Our ECU (the GM LNF), is very restrictive, so I am used to questioning that.

it's the sensor.....trick it then stick it..

[mkriebs]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx such dumb questions...if you read thru all 8 pages of this thread you would know whats up. delete your q and read this entire thread, you will learn what u wanna know fast.

I apologize. I did read the entire thread, in one night. I am sorry I forgot exactly what was up, been a bit busy trying to do alot of things. Again, I apologize.

[tmtbiker]

Originally Posted by mkriebs I apologize. I did read the entire thread, in one night. I am sorry I forgot exactly what was up, been a bit busy trying to do alot of things. Again, I apologize.

Don't worry about it, Sixxx was pretty harsh. Anyways, keep feeding us information! We do have a sensor that works on voltage, and it'll be maxing out, like we've done with the MAF already. The issue currently is the safety valves opening as we up the pressure.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Do your sensors top out? Or is it the fact the ECU just won't recognize it higher than a certain amount? And yes, I was surprised to see you running such low pressures. Do you have injector upgrades yet?

It's just the sensor that maxes out. I think i posted a voltage plot with some measurements i took on the first page.

I believe our ecu will recognize upto 6000psi, lol.

Originally Posted by SilverDemon With the proper measurements, I can make an adapter that would fit most any sensor. I think Mark found out how high the ECU can read.....

+1 on mark and the 6000psi.

We will definitely need to graduate to a larger sensor soon enough, probably not right now though. I vote we make sure everything works as intended first, then go for broke lol. I'm stoked you can make all this stuff!

Originally Posted by mkriebs I apologize. I did read the entire thread, in one night. I am sorry I forgot exactly what was up, been a bit busy trying to do alot of things. Again, I apologize.

No worries, this thread got big fast. I appreciate you sharing the slobalt infoz with us . Seriously though, we're in this together.

Do those companies sell their fuel solutions? What do they charge?

[mkriebs]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn No worries, this thread got big fast. I appreciate you sharing the slobalt infoz with us . Seriously though, we're in this together. Do those companies sell their fuel solutions? What do they charge?

Thanks, trying to keep this, and the slobalt stuff separate in my mind, while working a full time job, a part time job, and going to school full time kinda gets difficult, haha.

ZZP has not released their fuel pressure solution, but I assume it is much like yours. And Trifecta does sell it, but it is a tuning solution, so it works through the ECU. ZZP is still working on theirs, and I am sure it will release sometime this winter.

And, I agree that the sensor is not a problem YET. I just like looking to the future a bit too much, and trying to see problems that will arise later down the line. If you do decide to try a different sensor, I would assume the Cobalt Sensor would work with an adapter. I recommend buying it from GMpartsdirect.com. They have the best prices, and its where I get all my parts (just keep an eye on shipping, it gets ridic sometimes).

Also, here are some great sources about OUR (GM LNF) fuel system. It might help you understand your system, or DI in general, just a bit better. I like the pictures mainly (always been a fan of picture books).

Link #1
Link #2

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx such dumb questions...if you read thru all 8 pages of this thread you would know whats up. delete your q and read this entire thread, you will learn what u wanna know fast.

Bro thats a Cobalts owner ur ripping into, we are just happy that he is reading and responding at all.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Bro thats a Cobalts owner ur ripping into, we are just happy that he is reading and responding at all.

he is my friend..no worries...

i have his respect and he has mine..

im a lil harsh at time..lemme tone it down while in these friendly threads!

[mkriebs]

Suck up



It was all good.

[Lex]

The ECU always targets a particular voltage it reads from the sensor. No the ECU will never target or even "read" 6000psi. Our current sensor tops out at 2100psi meaning the additional CKT will not be able to read and scale pressures any higher than that. The sensor output saturates.

I have a feeling the ECU may have a particular failsafe in terms of how high it will drive the pump solenoid. This may be a cut or a CEL. We have yet to cross that bridge.

Remember that as pressure climbs other issues may come up. Initially the gains will be great but there's a design limit to the entire system.

[superskaterxes]

soooo whos got the restrictor things they wanna send out?

OI

[SpeedSixxx]

goddamn...i edited my post and i'm still gettin groans..LOL

i edited it trying to be nice cause when I wrote the original I was in a bad moob..

Mkriebs and I are now BFF's ....we is in kahoots..

please un groan me u fgt's it hurts my feelings =(

[rigor]

ohh come on i joined this fourm just because bj is a genius for figuring that out now were are the restrictor pills??? just a thought once you start to target over the relief pressure that restrictor pill is going to start pissing like if you hold 2000 psi that thing will be worse than an all night bender with a pissin contest... just food for thought would that foul up your targeted fuel ratio it thinks it is gitting 2000 but a little is leaking out? p.s. nice to meet you all

[tmtbiker]

edit, nevermind...

[06Speed6]

Thats alot of pissing.

[rigor]

thats no shit man!

[djuosnteisn]

So yup, not much going on in here, eh?


Any word on those restrictor pills? My co-worker has a M12 x 1mm die, so i'm prob gonna roll my own here soon regardless.

Work has been crazy for me. I'm gonna go in tomorrow and work on the final version of the ckt. Gonna be a very nice circuit, very configurable. I'll still work on a way to make it plug and play too. Grimmspeed wasn't willing to share any info at all on where they sourced the EBCS connectors. I don't really blame them, just wish it wasn't such a big deal.

Everything the car world is all about secrets and magic and rumors. I hate it, lol. Kinda why i like this community effort going on in here.

I'm not big on hiding things from people. I'm bigger on learning the science of the car, and different ways to advance the platform. I mean honestly, this shit isn't magic, its a car. Air, fuel, spark. I lay all my cards out, and enjoy the group thought process. There are so many damn good ideas on this forum, and so many smart people.

I'm not sure why i'm even typing all this shit. Basically i'm pretty stoked, cause my car is kicking ass right now lol. On way to work this morning i floored it around this wide turn and floated the whole intersection with a 4 wheel burn out lol. Felt really amazing. And once i locked back in, i was over 100mph is no time hahaha. Felt sooo damn good. I need to dyno soon

[spnkr21]

AWD must be nice I love powersliding with my bro's WRX

[Lex]

You nailed it. There isn't much to a motor or making power. There are a couple of extra ingredients thrown in the mix with DI and people want to $$$$$$ capitalize on it by keeping things secret. When there's money involved this will always happen.

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn So yup, not much going on in here, eh? Any word on those restrictor pills? My co-worker has a M12 x 1mm die, so i'm prob gonna roll my own here soon regardless. Work has been crazy for me. I'm gonna go in tomorrow and work on the final version of the ckt. Gonna be a very nice circuit, very configurable. I'll still work on a way to make it plug and play too. Grimmspeed wasn't willing to share any info at all on where they sourced the EBCS connectors. I don't really blame them, just wish it wasn't such a big deal. Everything the car world is all about secrets and magic and rumors. I hate it, lol. Kinda why i like this community effort going on in here. I'm not big on hiding things from people. I'm bigger on learning the science of the car, and different ways to advance the platform. I mean honestly, this shit isn't magic, its a car. Air, fuel, spark. I lay all my cards out, and enjoy the group thought process. There are so many damn good ideas on this forum, and so many smart people. I'm not sure why i'm even typing all this shit. Basically i'm pretty stoked, cause my car is kicking ass right now lol. On way to work this morning i floored it around this wide turn and floated the whole intersection with a 4 wheel burn out lol. Felt really amazing. And once i locked back in, i was over 100mph is no time hahaha. Felt sooo damn good. I need to dyno soon

[06Speed6]

If yall could just make all your bank accounts out to 06Speed6 and get them in the mail tomorrow morning, ide appreciate it.

[fjames]

I slide my 3 all the time if I want. You just need a banked turn at 4th gear speed that flattens at the exit. Let the banking hold you and if you've got enough power on, as it flattens the power and the loss of traction equalize and it's enough fun to go to jail.

[cpolly69]

or total your car

[Deadman]

been extremely busy @ work dustin sorry

if you get a chance to make your own please do... or have silverdemon send you one. Ill try again this week, but like i said i have had tons to do.. gay i know@!

[djuosnteisn]

No worries, my work has been slammed too. I have soooooo many other projects going on. Busy time of the year i guess.

[SilverDemon]

No die yet.......MSC must be on back order.