Initial Details into How The Boost Based Tuning Works with AccessTUNER

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 Christian, I tried that map you had posted and the boost based tables do not seem to match what you have in your first post screen shot. This is what i show, am i missing something?

Do you have "standard units" selected or not?
My guess is not.
Edit>Configure options>Display>Standard units...
If you want to see PSI

[Dano]

not or hes targeting over 100PSI...either or...

[Jarods7920]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak Do you have "standard units" selected or not? My guess is not. Edit>Configure options>Display>Standard units... If you want to see PSI

This lol

Thanks

[FreeFlyFreak]

I moved all the off topic steering angle stuff into its own thread: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...eed-3-a-67458/

[Dano]

Ok,

I am just getting around to actually trying the boost based logic and notice something quite different in the Boost Dynamics table vs the Load Dynamics.

LD has way more fine grained resolution than BD tables...what gives? I can adjust load error into the 100ths by 100ths but BD error is in 2PSI increments. how would you ever need 7 to 9PSI of over boost or under boost error control?

The reason I ask is because I am trying to fine tune BD table values to match up to my GT28 spool charastics and the res is so low.

I must be missing something...plese give me a clue

[Dano]

I have been load tuning...well for over a year now and each tune took me...like 20 map revisions to get load/boost dialed in.

Switched to boost tuning a day or so ago and by rev 5 I have the tune completed with regard to boost targets.

The car isn't as "twitchy" as it was with load tuning and it is actually tamer in the lower gears than with load tuning. Boost comes on much smoother than if you load target. Load targeting is of course more difficult as you need to scale load up to match the spool characteristics of the turbo or occiliation is a bigger issue. Targeting boost is much easier.

After I got my WGDC tables re-calibrated, there was no need to even touch the Boost Dynamics tables.

I will now move on to the Boost Comp tables to see if I can limit boost per gear.


Suffice to say boost tuning is 100x better so far.

[DSIT995]

Very nice, did u start with the maps christan posted as a base or did u start from scratch?

[Dano]

my maps are so far off from any OTS that I felt I should keep them and just throw the boost toggle on.

only other modifications I made before I started was to copy/paste Christians WGDC IAT comp table in, set my Boost Targets to a Conservative level 18PSI, and set my WGDC table values to 25 for a start.

Then I logged and monitored actual DC and adjusted accordingly...seriousley, 5 map revisions with some of them being boost target increases, and the map is done!

[Christian.]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 my maps are so far off from any OTS that I felt I should keep them and just throw the boost toggle on. only other modifications I made before I started was to copy/paste Christians WGDC IAT comp table in, set my Boost Targets to a Conservative level 18PSI, and set my WGDC table values to 25 for a start. Then I logged and monitored actual DC and adjusted accordingly...seriousley, 5 map revisions with some of them being boost target increases, and the map is done!

Below are some settings that I've used for various tables...you are welcome to use them as you wish.

Boost Dynamics

0.09	0.04	0.02	0.01	0.00	0.00	-0.01	-0.10	-0.15	-0.30	-0.70

This works well using the stock EBCS configuration. This give the ECU full authority to remove WGDC for over boost conditions, but limits the ECU's ability to add WGDC in under boost conditions.

Boost Dynamics

0.04	0.02	0.01	0.01	0.00	0.00	-0.00	-0.01	-0.02	-0.04	-0.09

This is a boost dynamics table that has worked well for 3-port solenoid tunes that I've done.

WG Duty - IAT Comp.

0.80	0.90	0.96	1.00	1.00	0.98	0.95	0.92

This needs additional testing, but has worked well thus far.

Boost Targets

-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50
-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50
-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50	-14.50
0.23	-2.81	-5.85	-8.89	-11.93	-11.76	-11.78	-11.76	-11.77	-11.83	-11.83	-11.94	-12.14	-12.38	-12.72
0.23	-2.17	-4.57	-6.97	-9.36	-9.02	-9.05	-9.02	-9.03	-9.16	-9.15	-9.38	-9.78	-10.25	-10.94
0.23	-1.52	-3.28	-4.82	-6.82	-6.43	-6.28	-6.07	-4.95	-5.06	-5.10	-5.35	-5.75	-6.21	-6.80
0.23	-0.88	-2.00	-2.67	-4.28	-3.85	-3.51	-3.13	-0.86	-0.96	-1.06	-1.33	-1.72	-2.17	-2.66
0.23	-0.24	-0.71	-0.52	-1.75	-1.26	-0.74	-0.18	3.22	3.14	2.99	2.70	2.31	1.87	1.48
0.23	0.40	0.58	1.62	0.79	1.32	2.03	2.77	7.30	7.25	7.03	6.72	6.33	5.92	5.62
0.23	1.05	1.87	3.77	3.33	3.91	4.80	5.71	11.38	11.35	11.08	10.75	10.36	9.96	9.76
0.23	1.69	3.15	5.92	5.87	6.49	7.57	8.66	15.47	15.45	15.12	14.77	14.39	14.00	13.90
0.25	2.34	4.44	8.07	8.40	9.08	10.34	11.60	19.55	19.55	19.17	18.80	18.42	18.04	18.04
0.26	2.99	5.73	10.22	10.94	11.66	13.11	14.55	19.55	19.55	19.17	18.80	18.42	18.04	18.04
0.28	3.65	7.02	10.22	10.94	11.66	13.11	14.55	19.55	19.55	19.17	18.80	18.42	18.04	18.04
0.29	4.08	7.86	10.22	10.94	11.66	13.11	14.55	19.55	19.55	19.17	18.80	18.42	18.04	18.04
0.29	4.50	8.70	10.22	10.94	11.66	13.11	14.55	19.55	19.55	19.17	18.80	18.42	18.04	18.04
1.54	5.43	9.33	10.22	10.94	11.66	13.11	14.55	19.55	19.55	19.17	18.80	18.42	18.04	18.04

This tries to limit too much boost down low and works well with the below WG Duty Cycles table.

WG Duty Cycles

0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	4.17	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	8.33	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	6.86	7.14	7.57	7.71	5.57
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	12.50	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	13.71	14.29	15.14	15.43	11.14
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	16.67	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	20.57	21.43	22.71	23.14	16.71
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	20.83	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	27.43	28.57	30.29	30.86	22.29
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	25.00	0.00	0.00	1.25	4.75	6.50	34.29	35.71	37.86	38.57	27.86
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	29.17	0.00	0.00	2.50	9.50	13.00	41.14	42.86	45.43	46.29	33.43
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	33.33	0.00	0.00	3.75	14.25	19.50	48.00	50.00	53.00	54.00	39.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	37.50	0.00	0.00	5.00	19.00	26.00	48.00	50.00	53.00	54.00	39.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	41.67	0.00	0.00	5.00	19.00	26.00	48.00	50.00	53.00	54.00	39.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	45.83	0.00	0.00	5.00	19.00	26.00	48.00	50.00	53.00	54.00	39.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	0.00	0.00	5.00	19.00	26.00	48.00	50.00	53.00	54.00	39.00
50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	50.00	0.00	0.00	5.00	19.00	26.00	48.00	50.00	53.00	54.00	39.00

As Dano2010 mentioned, refining boost control is pretty simple and much faster with pressure-based boost tuning enabled. The sections with zero WGDC help prevent the boost spikes on cars with free flowing intakes/exhausts.

My laptop is currently down...once I am back online, I will start helping out.

Christian.

[DSIT995]

Dano, u mind posting up ur map, just wanna take a peek....

[Dano]

It's in my thread in the ATR section

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...g-101-a-68239/

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Christian. The sections with zero WGDC help prevent the boost spikes on cars with free flowing intakes/exhausts.

so if DC is set to zero does the Boost Dynamics table have authority to add DC in those areas?

I mean 0 times any number still = 0 so Boost Dynamics can't even add DC in those areas right?

Thanks for posting up your suggested table values. I have posted up mine in my thread along with logs. I haven't fine tuned anything yet but for 5 map revisions it is looking good.


BTW...I am not sure I'll even need to mess around with Boost Comp tables per gear...I think I might have a better way to limit boost per gear but need to do some testing.

GL with the new laptop!

[Christian.]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 so if DC is set to zero does the Boost Dynamics table have authority to add DC in those areas? I mean 0 times any number still = 0 so Boost Dynamics can't even add DC in those areas right?

Yes, the Boost Dynamics appears to be an adder function on this ECU.

Originally Posted by Dano2010 Thanks for posting up your suggested table values. I have posted up mine in my thread along with logs. I haven't fine tuned anything yet but for 5 map revisions it is looking good. BTW...I am not sure I'll even need to mess around with Boost Comp tables per gear...I think I might have a better way to limit boost per gear but need to do some testing. GL with the new laptop!

Cool, let me know what you find. The new lappy should hopefully be here this week...maybe next.

Christian.

[superskaterxes]

the best part about spring pressure is that you only need as many map revs as it takes to cal your maf.

on straight spring pressure im seeing loads as high as 3.0 when only targeting 2.5ish so im always going to be in the very last row of the table for the entire pull which makes it even easier. i just set choose a spring and, well, thats it haha



christian,

are you guys working on getting the load axis scaling to work? last i talked to trey he said it was 90% done but he needed to do a fair amount of real world testing because the way he needed to manipulate the ecu to make this work could lead to bricking it alot easier if he diddent test it over and over. it makes it really sucky when your seeing such high loads and you have only 1 line of resolution to try and dial out knock and whatnot.

[Christian.]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes the best part about spring pressure is that you only need as many map revs as it takes to cal your maf. on straight spring pressure im seeing loads as high as 3.0 when only targeting 2.5ish so im always going to be in the very last row of the table for the entire pull which makes it even easier. i just set choose a spring and, well, thats it haha christian, are you guys working on getting the load axis scaling to work? last i talked to trey he said it was 90% done but he needed to do a fair amount of real world testing because the way he needed to manipulate the ecu to make this work could lead to bricking it alot easier if he diddent test it over and over. it makes it really sucky when your seeing such high loads and you have only 1 line of resolution to try and dial out knock and whatnot.

The load scaling is coming...we won't be able to modify the number of breakpoints, just the look-up values. This has not been a problem thus far...I've calibrated several just using the last row. This is essentially the exact same resolution that factory uses for fueling...one row for all WOT.

I would like to see load scaling, but it does not limit anything IMO...you just don't have a lot of resolution from 2.0 load and up. Honestly...how much do people transition load there to a point where they need to modify ignition advance anyway. This is coming, but it is not a show stopper IMO.

Christian.

[Jarods7920]

Originally Posted by Christian. The load scaling is coming...we won't be able to modify the number of breakpoints, just the look-up values. This has not been a problem thus far...I've calibrated several just using the last row. This is essentially the exact same resolution that factory uses for fueling...one row for all WOT. I would like to see load scaling, but it does not limit anything IMO...you just don't have a lot of resolution from 2.0 load and up. Honestly...how much do people transition load there to a point where they need to modify ignition advance anyway. This is coming, but it is not a show stopper IMO. Christian.

Then what is the show stopper lol?

[Dano]

Christian

thanks for editing your post with all the code to include BD for 3 port EBC configuration....it looks like to me that you found that the 3port reacts much faster and thus the BD table shouldn't have to intervene with as much correction.

Is this correct?

and were those 3port tunes you mentioned OEM turbos, Big Turbos or a mix?

[AFcadet]

Ok so I guess I'm just retarded...but I've read through this thread like 3 times and can't find where I update ATR to give me the boost tuning option.

Someone was talking about an automatic update...which I did for my AP...but not sure who this is connected with ATR (along with the IGN table update)

*EDIT*

I assume I have a older version of ATR...just went on cobbs site and sent in for a link for the ATR beta

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by AFcadet I assume I have a older version of ATR...just went on cobbs site and sent in for a link for the ATR beta

Get the new ATR and then:

EDIT>Advanced Parameters>Toggles>Use Boost Based Dynamics

[AFcadet]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak Get the new ATR and then: EDIT>Advanced Parameters>Toggles>Use Boost Based Dynamics

Cool...thanks.

And what was christian talking about using "autoupdate" to update the IGN tables? Is this a new feature in ATR as well? Just "update" and it will automatically apply the new IGN tables to the selected map?

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by AFcadet Cool...thanks. And what was christian talking about using "autoupdate" to update the IGN tables? Is this a new feature in ATR as well? Just "update" and it will automatically apply the new IGN tables to the selected map?

The New ATR can be updated.
No need to resubmit for a new download.

Therefore when they add new tables, or features, you can just "update" ATR and get them.
Those extra ignition tables were added after the new ATR came out, therefore people who got early editions needed to auto update to get them.

[Kydizzle]

do we uncheck the load boost control when we select the boost control?

[Dano]

absolutely...

use ABS Load shouldn't be checked by default anyway.

[Kydizzle]

Alright sweet just wanted to double check

[AFcadet]

anyone have ideas of how to properly tune with this? After experimenting with it...I'm finding you tune for boost with the WGDC table...not really the boost table...which is kind of wierd...

I was getting 17 psi when I was calling for 19.5 at 5500...I bumped up the WGDC and got a massive nasty spike to 21 psi. I am reducing the wgdc a little and seeing what that does...but its just wierd...the ecu just doesnt seem to do a good job of controling boost...rather it just references the WGDC table and leaves it at that.

[Dano]

You can take a look at my thread that covers my process. I am just about finished and used some suggestions from Christian.


http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...39/index2.html

[AFcadet]

Can you post a link...i must be blind...cant find the ATR section...

[Dano]

link added to my earlier post.

[AFcadet]

<3 you

[CWP_MS3]

Discuss Here: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...sstuner-66400/