"Standback Tuning For Dummies Guide" The Official Q&A...

[Joellc2434]

Ya caruch, you are right I didn't know that was how it worked. What do you think that I should have it set at without the flashes 4-5 like you did or does it even matter. Any ways I made a couple of runs. At 16 psi I hit the wall. But at 13 PSI these were my logs. One in 4th gear and the other in 3rd

[Joellc2434]

Also Richie I would PM you but I have to get to 15 posts first. I will as soon as I get there. WOuld love some base maps. Thanks again for the offer

[MattJackson86]

Honestly anything lower than 10 psi is probably fine. Higher and you could hit boost cut. 13psi is probably the upper limit of it working ok, though there is no downside to having it set lower. That way the ECU won't cut boost as it always thinks its so low.

[Joellc2434]

I'll be trying that tomorrow. THanks

[the_caruch]

setting it to 4 or 5 should give you full boost in all gears (not that you'll have traction in first and 2nd). i just wanted to be sure the ecu wasn't limiting boost in any way.

as far as your logs. it looks like it takes forever for the afr's to go down. i was going by your spark advance as to when you hit the throttle. but, with no knock it seems ok.

it would be better to see a standback log of your runs.


here is my lame KR that comes on at almost the same point in every run. I have lowered boost and it lessened the knock a little. 3.5 degrees down to 2.8. I'll play around with a few things to see if i can at least get it to 0. Not sure if it needs more fuel to help cooling. usually my boost is stable, this particular run it oscillated just a bit. FMIC for the win. Temps have never went up during a WOT run. On this run the ambient temp was about 42-45 degrees

[MattJackson86]

I always got knock at that range. Started at 4900ish and then another peak at 5300ish. I never got that 100% under control. Pulled all kinds of timing, played with AFR, and 1 in 3 runs would have it.

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by the_caruch as far as your logs. it looks like it takes forever for the afr's to go down. i was going by your spark advance as to when you hit the throttle. but, with no knock it seems ok.

I did pull some timing from areas that I was seeing knock before. BUt I haven't really added much timing in the lower rpms. That should lean me out a little bit down where my afrs are high. Is that right?

Originally Posted by the_caruch it would be better to see a standback log of your runs.

WHat should I log with the standback? Spark Timing, RPM, what else?

[MattJackson86]

SB should log everything. You don't have to choose what to log. You do choose what you wanted displayed on the graphs, but everything is logged.

[the_caruch]

Originally Posted by Joellc2434 I did pull some timing from areas that I was seeing knock before. BUt I haven't really added much timing in the lower rpms. That should lean me out a little bit down where my afrs are high. Is that right? WHat should I log with the standback? Spark Timing, RPM, what else?

Don't use timing to adjust fuel. Just add fuel in the MAF table for those particular rpm's and whatever you are basing the other axis on

You want to be at around 11.5-11.8 generally close to after you go WOT.

I always got knock at that range. Started at 4900ish and then another peak at 5300ish. I never got that 100% under control. Pulled all kinds of timing, played with AFR, and 1 in 3 runs would have it.

Damn. Well i'll report back what i did to eliminate it. I'm going to try a series of things to see what affects it. Not sure if it's the injector seals

Take away my raised fuel pressure -> test
Take away more boost -> test
Add more fuel -> test
Reduce timing -> test

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by the_caruch Don't use timing to adjust fuel. Just add fuel in the MAF table for those particular rpm's and whatever you are basing the other axis on You want to be at around 11.5-11.8 generally close to after you go WOT.

Im not trying to use timing to adjust fuel. I am just asking if I am right that adding timing will lean out afr a little. WHile pulling (removing) timing will make you run richer.

THis is just something that I have read from being on the forums. Haven't had the experience of testing it much.

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by charlesfist What do your LTFT's look like.

When you first asked this I basically answered from memory but now I have been looking into it more. I was told that my LTFTs should be under 8. When at cruise speed my LTFTs are at 3.9 but if I step into the throttle it goes to 12.5. Is this something that needs to be adjusted. I have been trying to read up on LTFT and STFT but does anyone have a simple explanation and/or some advice.

[MattJackson86]

LTFT is the only one you need to watch. It should be under +/- 8% while in closed loop (not WOT). Closer to 0 the better as this will change with temperature etc, so having it a -8% could go -12% with changes.

In open loop it should be 0%. If it is not, then reset the ECU (unplug battery for 5 mins) and just drive normally for 30 miles or so (no wot). The ECU will relearn the trims. Hopefully then your WOT LTFT will be 0%.

The way to adjust LTFT is via the MAF transfer table. If you have a -5% in a certain maf volts range then in that same maf volts range in the MAF transfer table, start decreasing the numbers (-1, -2, etc) until that range it closer to 0 in your LTFT. Changes to LTFT are not instant, they change over time. The STFT is instant but not a good gauge to what you need to change, so ignore it really.

[Joellc2434]

Cool. I think that is what I should do is reset my ECU. I don't know if I ever drove very tame for 30 miles after my standback install. Thanks

[MattJackson86]

Np. You may need/want to reset it a few times. Reset, adjust MAF transfer, learn trims, reset, adjust again, etc. You really just want you LTFT perfect before you go any further. If your not in a hurry, give it more than 30 miles. They can definitely take time to adjust, especially in the higher MAF volt range.

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Np. You may need/want to reset it a few times. Reset, adjust MAF transfer, learn trims, reset, adjust again, etc. You really just want you LTFT perfect before you go any further. If your not in a hurry, give it more than 30 miles. They can definitely take time to adjust, especially in the higher MAF volt range.

SHould I be logging MAF so that I know where to adjust on the transfer table? SHould I have everything else on my standback zeroed out again while the ecu is learning trims?

[spnkr21]

You shouldn't have to change the maf xfer. I think 12 for ltft isn't bad. You should check for boost/vac leaks, not change maf xfer.

[MattJackson86]

High LTFT is normal if you have mods and not tuned. With my SB removed my LTFT are around 15% or so. I definitely had to modify the maf transfer to get it all in line.

Originally Posted by Joellc2434 SHould I be logging MAF so that I know where to adjust on the transfer table? SHould I have everything else on my standback zeroed out again while the ecu is learning trims?

You shouldn't need to log. Just watch the LTFT and take note of when it changes. There are only 4-5 different ranges, so its not like it will change for each different MAF volts. Theranges are around <=1.3v, 1.3v-1.7v, 1.7v-2.1v, 2.1v-2.5v, 2.5v+. They are total estimates but it gives you an idea.

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 High LTFT is normal if you have mods and not tuned. With my SB removed my LTFT are around 15% or so. I definitely had to modify the maf transfer to get it all in line. You shouldn't need to log. Just watch the LTFT and take note of when it changes. There are only 4-5 different ranges, so its not like it will change for each different MAF volts. Theranges are around <=1.3v, 1.3v-1.7v, 1.7v-2.1v, 2.1v-2.5v, 2.5v+. They are total estimates but it gives you an idea.

SO do I lean out ranges that have high LTFTs. Sorry for the ignorance

Never mind found answer in one of your previous posts

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by Joellc2434 SO do I lean out ranges that have high LTFTs. Sorry for the ignorance Never mind found answer in one of your previous posts

you need to input positive numbers or add fuel on the maf xfer table if you want to try and correct trims that are too high
the high trim is your ecu's way of saying "there is fuel lacking, so i'm providing more" you need to trick it and make it think there is more voltage then there is from the maf - already more fuel
you can just start the car up with the sb already connected and a read done (with a buddy) - don't try and read with the car on - then you can just input the numbers where you are highlighted as you idle/cruise and watch your trims decrease or increase

just keep in mind when you make a change on the mafxfer that it's for all rpm ranges - so if you add fuel at 1v - it's basically like adding a 1 on the 30x30 table from top to bottom at 1v

also don't forget trims are highly variable depending on weather - so if it's cool now and you do this - when the weather changes all this may need done again..

[charlesfist]

Originally Posted by Joellc2434 When you first asked this I basically answered from memory but now I have been looking into it more. I was told that my LTFTs should be under 8. When at cruise speed my LTFTs are at 3.9 but if I step into the throttle it goes to 12.5. Is this something that needs to be adjusted. I have been trying to read up on LTFT and STFT but does anyone have a simple explanation and/or some advice.

Looks like everyone has covered everything well, in this response.

I will just say, that since our cars are so MAF based, I like the trims as close to zero as possible.

I do log LTFT's and MAF to see what changes to make at the break points to get it nicely done (This is probably overkill though)

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by charlesfist Looks like everyone has covered everything well, in this response. I will just say, that since our cars are so MAF based, I like the trims as close to zero as possible. I do log LTFT's and MAF to see what changes to make at the break points to get it nicely done (This is probably overkill though)

No it's not - I found (in my experience anyway) that the more you see increased trims in closed loop - The longer it will take to transition into open loop and the higher your load will climb before you transition - If you aren't using the latest atr or don't have the cpe load cut/big maf flash then this will lead to cuts if you go over 200 or so...

[Joellc2434]

Well I just said fuck it and ordered up the the fuel cut ad full control flash. BUt now I read the post above about needing the big maf flash. What if I have the original CAI that cp-e released, do I still need that flash?. DO I need to amend my order?

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by Joellc2434 Well I just said fuck it and ordered up the the fuel cut ad full control flash. BUt now I read the post above about needing the big maf flash. What if I have the original CAI that cp-e released, do I still need that flash?. DO I need to amend my order?

you can't run the big maf flash unless you have the bigger maf housing - it's all a kit you can get from cpe - the car will not run like this on a normal cpe cai
ideally if you are on stock turbo - you would get both the bigger inlet and the bigger maf in order to have the best trims on the big maf/load cap flash

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 you can't run the big maf flash unless you have the bigger maf housing - it's all a kit you can get from cpe - the car will not run like this on a normal cpe cai ideally if you are on stock turbo - you would get both the bigger inlet and the bigger maf in order to have the best trims on the big maf/load cap flash

Thanks again. I guess that is something that I will worry about later down the road if I ever strive to go for huge power. I guess that I could always send my ECU back again to get that last flash on there. So i guess that I need to get to UPS and send my ECU to Cp-e. Wow thats a lot of 3 letter acronyms for one sentence

[the_caruch]

Originally Posted by Joellc2434 Thanks again. I guess that is something that I will worry about later down the road if I ever strive to go for huge power. I guess that I could always send my ECU back again to get that last flash on there. So i guess that I need to get to UPS and send my ECU to Cp-e. Wow thats a lot of 3 letter acronyms for one sentence

Be sure to get it insured for about $1000 dollars. If UPS loses it, it's not cheap to get a replacement.

[Joellc2434]

Originally Posted by the_caruch Be sure to get it insured for about $1000 dollars. If UPS loses it, it's not cheap to get a replacement.

Ya. On the way to PostNet I called the local dealership to get a price on an ECU and it was $1180 and change so I insured for $1200. Absolutely wasn't going to be caught with my pants down on that one

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by charlesfist Matt- THANKS a lot for writing up the new program. Cant wait for the updated one which includes the other OBD parameters, so no more fumbling around with two devices....

Quick status update: I got this working but it has slowed down the logging quite a bit (2-3 samples a second), so I am in the process of getting that back to 6-8 samples a second it was before. Will post when its available on website.

[charlesfist]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Quick status update: I got this working but it has slowed down the logging quite a bit (2-3 samples a second), so I am in the process of getting that back to 6-8 samples a second it was before. Will post when its available on website.

That is great news!!!
I, and am sure everyone else here using the SB is really looking forward to this.
Thanks for your continued work on this...

Guessing we would just need a OBD II to usb cable as far as hardware to run this?

[MattJackson86]

You will need an elm327 device. I have this one: ELM327 1.5V USB ELM 327 CAN-BUS V1.5a OBD Scanner tool | eBay

But there are tons on ebay that should work. I have only used the USB and serial versions. Not used the bluetooth so no idea how they work exactly.

Ill post when I have it sampling at a fast rate.

[pebenito]

I've got a bluetooth elm327, so when this MST update is available, I'll try. Its probably just a bluetooth->serial bridge, so I would expect it to work as long as its paired with the laptop.

[RichieRichness]

What is the purpose of using this device?

[MattJackson86]

Read OBD data from the car via your laptop (i.e Dashhawk).

[RichieRichness]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Read OBD data from the car via your laptop (i.e Dashhawk).

Yeah but what is the advantage of using this over the DH or SB software you've created?

[MattJackson86]

The ELM327 just plugs into the car where DH does and then other end plugs into laptop. My SB software will read the AFR, BAT, Kr, etc from the ELM327 at the same time it logs SB data and combine the 2 into 1 log file.

[pebenito]

I also use it to monitor via the Torque app on my phone.

[RichieRichness]

Guys...thats pimp!

[Joellc2434]

So I got my flashed ECU back and I have a question that I think I already know the answer to. Using my dashhawk and putting the pedal all the way to the floor, the dashwak only shows 77% on the TPS. Is this because this is what the flashed ECU is relaying or am I only getting 77% of open throttle? If I logged with the standback would it show full control over the throttle?

[spnkr21]

Yes

[the_caruch]

yea, when you look at a SB log the TPS voltage will go to something higher than 4 volts. probably hover around 4.3-4.6v

[cbusby]

So I just picked up a used Standback2 and PnP a few days ago, as did a friend of mine and we are gonna give this tuning thing a try together. I realize that everyone is going to the AP, but I liked the price point of the SB and don't plan on going BT anytime soon so I'm hoping this will be okay.

Anyway, I just read every single post here and learned a lot, made a bunch of notes. I gathered from what I read that the first thing I should do is nail down my LTFT's as much as possible. I was pretty surprised when I looked at my Dashhawk and it was reading -14 at idle! A little blip on the throttle brings it to -9. Is it normal to see numbers this negative?

I've made the adjustments to my MafXfer table (0-1.5v: -2, 1.5-2.1v: -1) and will reset the ECU and go for a cruise tomorrow to test. Anybody still monitoring this thread and mind helping me out once I get some logs done?

Also I'm using the modified software by MattJackson and really like it.

Colin