MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[phillyb]

what the fuck!!!!
i feel for you man. if you're not modded, i don't really understand how they could not warranty this...this is getting to be fucking ridiculous

[ms3jake]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 The low oil light comes on after it's already too low.

Your avitar is funny!

[MZRDISI4]

Originally Posted by s-retire I understand what you are saying, but it makes no sense at all. Does Mazda recognize that this is true? Do you have instances where others have had low oil pressure failures without warning? The owner’s manual clearly describes action that should be taken to prevent engine failure after the light comes on. I understand that a low pressure warning light won’t indicate low pressure in a worn out motor, but this motor is brand new.

I understand that this shouldn't be happening in a new car, I'm just saying relying on that light is a bad thing to do, but you shouldn't have to in a new car anyway. And, your dealer is obviously 100% at fault for this failure. I saw one case of no engine compression with no warning sign.. but that's a little different.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 I understand that this shouldn't be happening in a new car, I'm just saying relying on that light is a bad thing to do, but you shouldn't have to in a new car anyway. And, your dealer is obviously 100% at fault for this failure. I saw one case of no engine compression with no warning sign.. but that's a little different.

The warning light is all that Mazda provides to indicate a low oil condition. What should we rely on?

I don't think a blown motor should be the first clue. Is there any other examples available of similar situations or has the Low Oil Pressure Light worked effectively for others?

The reason I ask is Mazda North America has denied warranty claim. They are not recognizing that there was a material defect that contributed to this.

or am I missing something?

[spheed3]

I can't comment on Mazda, but most makes I've delt with, the low oil light gives you ample time to get the car to the side of the road. The low oil level light (yellow light) would be first followed by low oil pressure (red light). I've personally witnessed a engine run with out oil for about 15 minutes.

[phillyb]

running without oil is bad mmmmkay?

[mouse0330]

Originally Posted by boosted3 yea im going meth also seems liek people wiht meth havent blown there motor at all.a good tune wiht the meth at lower boost levels should give us the upper hand on the popped motors.Darksun big turbo most likely goign on after the holidays

I still don't know about that, there are a lot of ms3 out there and only a few/ very few that run meth. So odds are favorable with meth users but there are tons of ms3 out there that are running fine without a problem/blown engine. Can we find out how many ms3 are sold since 2007, I think we need a consensus going if one haven't done one yet, I know we have one for blown engine.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by phillyb running without oil is bad mmmmkay?

The question is; what provision is there to recognize “running without oil” if it occurs while driving on the freeway?

Isn't that what the low oil pressure indicator light is for?

If there is no indication for a low oil condition prior to engine failure, what is to say that all of the listed engine failures weren’t due to low oil pressure? and Wouldn’t that lend to being a manufacturer defect?

[watdog]

The only real indication is the low oil light. Other than that your valve train would probably be really loud.

My friend lost his regular 3 in almost the same way. It was 1 week after an oil change or so and the rod went while cruising on the freeway. He took it to the dealer and they said mazda is not at fault. They ended up finding out that Jiffy lube <-(I think) cracked the oil filter housing when performing the oil change. It was a little easier for them to find that then the low oil he may have had (or if the drain bolt was missing). Considering there was a hole in the pan. Jiffy Lube said it wasn't there fault or something. Anyway, he ending up having to go through his insurance or something to get it repaired. Then he got rid of it for a G35.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by watdog My friend lost his regular 3 in almost the same way. It was 1 week after an oil change or so and the rod went while cruising on the freeway. He took it to the dealer and they said mazda is not at fault. They ended up finding out that Jiffy lube <-(I think) cracked the oil filter housing when performing the oil change. It was a little easier for them to find that then the low oil he may have had (or if the drain bolt was missing). Considering there was a hole in the pan. Jiffy Lube said it wasn't there fault or something. Anyway, he ending up having to go through his insurance or something to get it repaired. Then he got rid of it for a G35.

Thanks for the info! It sound like this kind of customer care is SOP for Mazda. I wish I’d known that before I took the wife there to buy a car.

I am curious how far your friend pushed for recovery from Mazda and Jiffy Lube before he used his insurance carrier?

Given the fact that the MAZDA selling dealer and the authorized Mazda servicing dealer are one and the same, my situation is a little different than your friend’s, so I’m definitely going to push this through to the bitter end.

Did your friend file a complaint with NHTSA? If not is he willing to?

If your friend is ok with it, can you put me in touch with him? Send me a P.M.

[spheed3]

I'm sorry but I don't see how Mazds NA is responsible here

[Laloosh]

how are they not, the car is stock, they did the oil change, car blew up and now they blame it on a oil leak? First off all, i highly doubt there was an oil leak to begin with.

[spheed3]

I was under the impression the drain plug fell out in which case it's the dealers fault that performed the oil service not Mazda NA...

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by spheed3 I'm sorry but I don't see how Mazds NA is responsible here

Originally Posted by Laloosh how are they not, the car is stock, they did the oil change, car blew up and now they blame it on a oil leak? First off all, i highly doubt there was an oil leak to begin with.

Originally Posted by spheed3 I was under the impression the drain plug fell out in which case it's the dealers fault that performed the oil service not Mazda NA...

All this gets to the heart of the issue. Many people, including myself, take our cars to the dealer for service during the warranty period with the assumption that is the best way to keep our new car warranty in place. There are several recommendations within the Owners and Warranty Manual that led me to believe that is the best course of action. While I’m not an attorney, I believe that the Replacement Parts and Accessories Limited Warranty support that reasoning.

I’m finding that with Mazda this is not the case and that paying the extra price to have a car serviced at the dealer is money wasted. What is Mazda Authorized Dealer and Mazda Authorized Service intended to mean?

At least if I’d changed the oil myself, I’d understand being told to bear the responsibility myself. But, then again I’ve never left an oil pan drain plug loose.

That being said, Mazda NAO is denying the warranty on the unproven theory that the drain plug fell out and the all of the oil drained out of the pan. The servicing dealer is not disputing that could be the case, but needs some concrete evidence before submitting a claim to their insurance carrier. Such a theory should be easy to prove, but Mazda NAO has not done so. My position is that Mazda NAO holds new car warranty responsibility until it is proven to the extent required to convince the servicing dealer that the failure was their fault.

First piece of evidence that the theorized chain of events is accurate would be an observation of a low oil pressure situation prior to the motor going pop. NO OIL, NO OIL PRESSURE. There was no warning of low oil pressure. Even the Service Manager at the dealer where that car was originally towed stated that he has seen these motors run for extended periods without oil (1/2 hour).

Next way Mazda NAO could provide evidence is by inspecting other oil lubricated components for signs of oil starvation. To date Mazda has not done that either.

Just my not so humble opinion, but it is Mazda NAO’s responsibility to stand behind their product. If they want to affix financial responsibility to the Servicing Dealer, more power to them. I’ll assist them in any way I can, but that should be done without leaving me, the customer, without assistance.

That is the way they approached this from the beginning. To date they have not yet stepped up to the plate. They are making overtures to the idea that they may, but still dragging their feet. I’ve been disappointed by Mazda NAO Customer Care failing to follow through on overtures already.

[spheed3]

Originally Posted by s-retire All this gets to the heart of the issue. Many people, including myself, take our cars to the dealer for service during the warranty period with the assumption that is the best way to keep our new car warranty in place. There are several recommendations within the Owners and Warranty Manual that led me to believe that is the best course of action. While I’m not an attorney, I believe that the Replacement Parts and Accessories Limited Warranty support that reasoning. I’m finding that with Mazda this is not the case and that paying the extra price to have a car serviced at the dealer is money wasted. What is Mazda Authorized Dealer and Mazda Authorized Service intended to mean? At least if I’d changed the oil myself, I’d understand being told to bear the responsibility myself. But, then again I’ve never left an oil pan drain plug loose. That being said, Mazda NAO is denying the warranty on the unproven theory that the drain plug fell out and the all of the oil drained out of the pan. The servicing dealer is not disputing that could be the case, but needs some concrete evidence before submitting a claim to their insurance carrier. Such a theory should be easy to prove, but Mazda NAO has not done so. My position is that Mazda NAO holds new car warranty responsibility until it is proven to the extent required to convince the servicing dealer that the failure was their fault. First piece of evidence that the theorized chain of events is accurate would be an observation of a low oil pressure situation prior to the motor going pop. NO OIL, NO OIL PRESSURE. There was no warning of low oil pressure. Even the Service Manager at the dealer where that car was originally towed stated that he has seen these motors run for extended periods without oil (1/2 hour). Next way Mazda NAO could provide evidence is by inspecting other oil lubricated components for signs of oil starvation. To date Mazda has not done that either. Just my not so humble opinion, but it is Mazda NAO’s responsibility to stand behind their product. If they want to affix financial responsibility to the Servicing Dealer, more power to them. I’ll assist them in any way I can, but that should be done without leaving me, the customer, without assistance. That is the way they approached this from the beginning. To date they have not yet stepped up to the plate. They are making overtures to the idea that they may, but still dragging their feet. I’ve been disappointed by Mazda NAO Customer Care failing to follow through on overtures already.

Well I understand where your coming from and I am NOT try to be inflamatory. Being a professional technician I can assure you drain plugs do get left loose, not often, but it happens and rarely do they fall out. The dealer is a seperate business entity than Mazda NA and a warranty only covers factory workmanship not dealer workmanship. The call as to whether or not the drain plug fell out is easy, it just wouldn't be there. I honestly hope Mazda NA offers you some sort of assistance but I don't believe they are obligated to. I can assure you a low oil pressure light did come on but who honestly is monitoring their dash all the time? I can think of many occasions I've been driving, looked down at the dash to see the low tire indicator on and think "when the hell did that come on?". Either way if all else fails I'd advise an insurance claim. Good Luck.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by spheed3 I can assure you a low oil pressure light did come on but who honestly is monitoring their dash all the time? I can think of many occasions I've been driving, looked down at the dash to see the low tire indicator on and think "when the hell did that come on?". Either way if all else fails I'd advise an insurance claim. Good Luck.

Thanks, I didn’t take your comments as inflammatory at all. Rather, the different perspective helps to keep the argument straight.

Quick point. There has been a lot of exploration on my end about the low oil pressure warning light. The wife was driving the car home from a long road trip. She is on the down hill side the mountain on I5 approaching Shasta. She is in 5th gear, 70 mph, in and out of cruise control, watching the tach and the temp gauge closely due to the road conditions. She’s also begun watching the fuel, preparing for her next fuel stop. (Not many options in that area)

When the car starts to shake, she looks down to check the gauges to see if there is an indication of something wrong. She sees nothing. No warning lights and the coolant gauge is normal. She’s thinking she has a flat tire and changes lanes to get to the right shoulder. As she is changing lanes, she sees the oil pressure light come on followed by the check engine light flashing.

I’m convinced!

I understand the claimed separation of relationship between Mazda NAO and the dealer. The words Authorized and the text in the Warranty Manual show something different, but most importantly the responsibility of servicing the warranty is Mazda NAO’s until they prove it to be the fault of another party.

It is a huge rude awakening to know that I wasted money having my car serviced at an Authorized Service Dealer.

[s-retire]

[QUOTE=spheed3;150928 The call as to whether or not the drain plug fell out is easy, it just wouldn't be there. [/QUOTE]

Sorry one other item. I am told the oil drain plug wasn't in the car when it was inspected after being towed (cradle snatcher rear wheels on the ground) 130 miles to the nearest dealer.

I'm good with what you say, but who can say for sure?

[frito]

I have not read all the threads here but I would be ****ing nuts about this entire thing. I would first make sure that there was no language in the new dealer taking over he business that took on the liabilty.

Second, I would see if there is any existing entity from the past dealer to sue and third but not last I would go after Mazda NA.

Mazda NA does have an agreement with the dealers for service. For instance you must go to them for your warranty work period. You only used the dealer that Mazda had this license agreement with. I am sure the it was your understaning that you were required to use them for your warranty.

That fact that this business entity no longer exists is not relevant.

I guess in a nutshell, if Mazda is not responsible than they cannot force you to go to the dealer for warranty service. They take on the burden of liabilty by having this relationship.

[watdog]

Thanks for the info! It sound like this kind of customer care is SOP for Mazda. I wish I’d known that before I took the wife there to buy a car.

In his case it wasn't Mazda's or a Mazda service centers fault.

I am curious how far your friend pushed for recovery from Mazda and Jiffy Lube before he used his insurance carrier?

He didn't push Mazda at all. Again once the dealership found the cracked oil filter housing they said "Who did your oil change?" then they said you need to contact them in reguards to replacing the engine. He had a lawyer and everything going after Jiffy Lube but in the end it was just cheaper for insurance to take care of it, still awaiting a response from him. After lawyer fee's and proving who is at fault it wasn't going to be worth fighting anymore cause he could have bought a new engine.

Given the fact that the MAZDA selling dealer and the authorized Mazda servicing dealer are one and the same, my situation is a little different than your friend’s, so I’m definitely going to push this through to the bitter end.

You are in a way different spot as the dealer is the one that did the oil change. I would continue fighting.

Did your friend file a complaint with NHTSA? If not is he willing to?

I don't know if he filed a complaint. As of now it's been almost 1.5 years or maybe even 2 years now so probably not.

If your friend is ok with it, can you put me in touch with him? Send me a P.M.

I tried contacting him however, he is difficult to get a hold of. He is done with the Mazda and doesn't look back. He doesn't really talk about it either cause he hates looking back on everything he went through. Plus it was a long time ago.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by watdog He is done with the Mazda and doesn't look back. He doesn't really talk about it either cause he hates looking back on everything he went through.

I understand thoroughly, I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.

Thank you.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by spheed3 The dealer is a seperate business entity than Mazda NA and a warranty only covers factory workmanship not dealer workmanship. I honestly hope Mazda NA offers you some sort of assistance but I don't believe they are obligated to. I'd advise an insurance claim. Good Luck.

Your choice of words are very similar to the rhetoric I am hearing from Mazda NAO and the dealers, so I am wondering if you are a Mazda technician?

I have a question that may resolve some confusion, Does the ECM on an early 2008 Speed3 record a code for the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light when the engine is running at speed?

That data would serve to support (or refute) my wife’s observations.

[spheed3]

Originally Posted by s-retire Your choice of words are very similar to the rhetoric I am hearing from Mazda NAO and the dealers, so I am wondering if you are a Mazda technician? I have a question that may resolve some confusion, Does the ECM on an early 2008 Speed3 record a code for the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light when the engine is running at speed? That data would serve to support (or refute) my wife’s observations.

Lexus technician actually. Our cars wouldn't record a DTC for low oil pressure but you MAY see something for a VVT malfunction as most VVT systems are oil pressure activated.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by spheed3 Our cars wouldn't record a DTC for low oil pressure but you MAY see something for a VVT malfunction as most VVT systems are oil pressure activated.

Thanks, I'll ask.

At what pressure would would you see a failure of the VVT vs. at what pressure would the oil pressure switch close?

[spheed3]

On a Mazda honestly I couldn't say. If you have questions specificly for me please PM them so as not to clutter this thread anymore.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by s-retire At what pressure would would you see a failure of the VVT vs. at what pressure would the oil pressure switch close?

Does anyone have the answer to that question?

I was thinking that anyone be exploring oil starvation as a cause of engine failure might find it useful.

There could be many causes of the lubrication system not picking up oil.

[Darksun280]

add speed_3 to the list and Mlassek

[mlassek]

add me to the list of shame.

bent #3 rod while shifting into 3rd at 3-4k rpms mid boost.
mods are listed in sig but with pg intake rather than the txs listed.
only seen mobil 1 oil until i put royal purple in last week (5-30)

[JimmyMac]

Will do. Was Speed_3 just an oil plug missing/loose issue that caused the boom?

[Darksun280]

Add breakthestatic to the list please. Also make sure i still have my reservation ready

[JimmyMac]

Do you have a link to his info? I haven't been paying attention lately haha. Sorry.

[Darksun280]

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...g-downlow.html

is taz and just search break the statics created threads

[ASIC_BSEE]

I truly believe that keeping the combustion chamber clean has kept my car running strong for 46K miles. I clean it out about every 10k miles. I seafoam soak the piston tops for an hour or so then seafoam during idle right before an oil change. It helps prevent the hot-spots that are causing pre-ignition under high AFR boost conditions.

[badams118]

How are you running Seafoam through the intake?

[ASIC_BSEE]

Originally Posted by badams118 How are you running Seafoam through the intake?

There's a small nipple right down in front of the intake manifold that feeds into all 4 runners. I feed it in at idle slowly by crimping the hose going into the seafoam can.

[phantom3]

Seafoam thread

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-foam-cel.html

[JimmyMac]

I still have to add the other motors, I'll try and get to it before the weekend.

[kwsmithphoto]

Warranty: Denied – Inspecting dealer claims that servicing Mazda dealer left drain plug loose and cause was it fell out allowing oil to drain out. Oil: Dealer supplied 5w/30 stock # 103050. Oil changed @2300 miles.

Update?

Legally speaking, that's the beginning and the end of the story. Since the cost of a new engine while they f**k with you exceeds the cost of CA's $5000 small claims courts, I would have filed suit in "regular" court, and sent all parties a letter of intent when I first heard the word "no." But it's not too late.

The current ownership status of the dealer is irrelevant. Essentially, all that matters is that they were a Mazda dealer when they fubar'd your car. If they subsequently went out of business, the responsibility becomes Mazda's.

If this hasn't been remedied yet, sue them ASAP. You have a paper trail showing it was caused by a Mazda dealer. Legally, their status at the time of the event is all that really matters. You don't need a lawyer to do this, but some advice from a legal aid group in your area will make it easier for you in terms of logistics and wording.

The awful/great thing about suing people is that you can name virtually any party as a defendant, so go big. Dealer, Mazda NA, Mazda Japan, etc. Once they all get the paperwork, things should happen pretty fast. They will try to avoid a court battle because it's generally much cheaper to fix the car than send their corporate lawyers up to Northern Cal and deal with a small town County Judge.

If you haven't done so already, create a thorough log of all events and communications. If you're renting a car, include that in the tab. Same goes if you lost any income from the downtime. You can't get them for payments made on a non-working car since that isn't their problem. Fixing the car most definitely is, though. Get a quote from a functional Mazda dealer to swap the motor, including towing charges, and itemize every possible, post-failure cost that you can prove, and sue them for the sum.


You WILL prevail. Stop talking, start suing. You were harmed and are entitled to a remedy. Period.

Again, the current state of the dealer is irrelevant; all that matters is their status when they didn't screw a bolt in properly. Mazda USA is 100% responsible because of that.

[fbpem1]

warranty will not pay a fuck up, the dealer who did it needs to eat that engine plain and simple. Go after the dealer kep mazda out of it unless they won't work with you at all.

[kwsmithphoto]

The dealer is gone and Mazda isn't/wasn't working with him, that's the problem.

Unless CA law has changed dramatically in recent years (not likely), Mazda is still obligated to fix it, since the dealer was their representative. You can't buy a Mazda without a Mazda dealer, so even though most dealer's are independently owned franchises, the manufacturer is left holding the bag if the dealer goes away.

I went through something similar with Ford a while back, and won without a law suit or a lawyer. Basically, one of their dealers fuctup my car and was denying it, and the factory zone rep took their side. So I informed the zone rep that I'd see them in court. Detroit got involved and covered the repair costs within a week.

Let's say you worked for Best Buy as an installer and you busted something expensive in a home while on the job. The customer would go after Best Buy because you were acting as their representative. It would still technically be your fault, but your Geek Squad uniform puts the actual liability onto Best Buy. You'd be fired, of course, but not held liable.

Basically, if the sign outside says "Mazda" on it, Mazda is ultimately responsible for their actions, even if the sign is gone after the problem happened. That's how the law generally sees this sort of thing.

[fbpem1]

hey thanks guys, i appreciate it....but you might wanna bump me a few more down, its not gonna be for a while car runs too good