Mazdaspeed 3/6 UOA Results

[div2]

As promised, here's my latest UOA:

Engine 2.3L Turbo, direct injection

Miles on engine 14630
Miles on oil 4632
Date sampled 04/08/08
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 34
Copper 29
Lead 1
Tin 0
Moly 91
Nickel 0
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 53
Silicon 11
Sodium 9
Calcium 2400
Magnesium 12
Phosphorus 635
Zinc 787
Barium 1

Sus Visc @ 210F 55.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 8.83 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 390 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.3 should be <0.6
TBN 3.0

As I noted over at BITOG, Mobil1 5W-30 is working pretty well- in my engine, anyway...
Here are my prior results:

Engine 2.3L Turbo, direct injection

Miles on engine 9838
Miles on oil 5046
Date sampled 12/31/07
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 40
Copper 83
Lead 2
Tin 0
Moly 80
Nickel 1
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 38
Silicon 12
Sodium 6
Calcium 2634
Magnesium 11
Phosphorus 624
Zinc 808
Barium 2

Sus Visc @ 210F 56.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 9.13 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 375 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN 2.9

[Crossbow]

Looks like wear is stabilizing. You could probably skip the next UOA, and do one at 10k miles, and the metals will probably be even less.

It's interesting how UOA's show how long true engine break-in takes. It's usually 10-20k miles before the wear metals finally start being very consistent between intervals.

[div2]

Originally Posted by Crossbow Looks like wear is stabilizing. You could probably skip the next UOA, and do one at 10k miles, and the metals will probably be even less. It's interesting how UOA's show how long true engine break-in takes. It's usually 10-20k miles before the wear metals finally start being very consistent between intervals.

I'll probably keep tracking the trends at 5K mile intervals. What can I say? I'm an OCD car geek... As for long break-in periods, that was certainly the case with my '95 318ti. I switched to Mobil 1 15W-50 at 4K miles, and the 1.8 liter inline four didn't fully break-in until 21K, when highway mileage suddenly jumped from 28-30 mpg to 31-32 mpg. It's now racked up almost 112K, so I think I'll have a couple of UOAs done just to see what's going on.

[Crossbow]

Ha, UOA's are definitely addictive. Especially dyson ones...you always feel like you're getting some sort of special scientist analysis on your car...makes you feel like it will last forever with the right care!

[Zeya]

So, without bothering to search or do the research myself... how do you guys do this? I'm picturing someone doing a CSI-esque cotton swabbing during an oil change, carefully placing the swab in a tiny plastic ziploc bag, and mailing it off to some lab somewhere in northern Montana. And how much do you pay for the report or whatever?

[div2]

Originally Posted by Zeya So, without bothering to search or do the research myself... how do you guys do this? I'm picturing someone doing a CSI-esque cotton swabbing during an oil change, carefully placing the swab in a tiny plastic ziploc bag, and mailing it off to some lab somewhere in northern Montana. And how much do you pay for the report or whatever?

I use Blackstone Labs. The basic cost is $22.50, but I pay $10 more and also get a TBN, which measures how much active additives are left in the oil. On my other cars I simply collect my sample from the oil as it is draining. The MS3 gets free oil changes at the dealer as long as I own it, so I bought a $30 sample pump from Blackstone that allows me to collect oil from the sump prior to the oil change.

[Haltech]

Anyone got the UOA on RP? I guess ill order the Sump pump from blackstone.

[div2]

Originally Posted by Haltech Anyone got the UOA on RP? I guess ill order the Sump pump from blackstone.

I searched over at BITOG and couldn't find any RP UOAs for the MS3, MS6, or CX-7, sorry.

The pump is pretty trick; it's designed so that the oil is pumped directly into the sample bottle and the pump itself never touches the oil. The .25" plastic icemaker tubing the pump uses is so cheap-seven cents per foot-that it's not worth cleaning and re-using the tubing.

[Zeya]

Originally Posted by div2 The MS3 gets free oil changes at the dealer as long as I own it

Free oil changes? What kind of deal is that? Do you work for Mazda or something?

[div2]

Originally Posted by Zeya Free oil changes? What kind of deal is that? Do you work for Mazda or something?

Nope, my dealer(Kings Mazda in Cincinnati) provides that with every new Mazda purchase. I have to provide the synthetic oil, but I still like to let them do it since the job is such a pain compared to my other cars.

[Ziggo]

Long Beach Mazda has the free oil changes thingy if you buy something else (overpriced) extra. I think it was thier security system or something of the sort. I imagine they are not the only dealership doing this. Say 30$ an oil change and you keep the car for 100K miles, it only saves you 1k. Thier cost is much lower, and that is only if you are religious about 3K mile oil changes.

They were very pushy and tried to sell me on a "limited availability" markup on the car and wouldn't budge, so I drove 10 more miles and got what I wanted. It is certainly a buyers market for cars in the LA area.

[Jesse MS3GT]

It may not just be the break in period lasting a long time. It could also be the metal shavings not being drained completely within a few oil changes. Unless you drop the oil pan and clean it thoroughly, you could always have some shavings still in the oil pan waiting to be drained the next time around.

[bova]

might be a dumb question but why use 10w30 when car takes 5w30? advantages?

[enganear]

Originally Posted by bova80 might be a dumb question but why use 10w30 when car takes 5w30? advantages?

Good question, and Crossbow provided an excellent answer. My personal reasons for choosing 10W30 over 5W30 are:
1. Normal shear down
2. Grade reduction from fuel dilution
3. Stability
4. I live in a mild climate with a heated garage
5. I always warm up an engine easy

If I was seeing frequent dips below 20F, I would use 5W30. Mazda specs cars for use everywhere.
-enganear

[Crossbow]

might be a dumb question but why use 10w30 when car takes 5w30? advantages?

A 10w-30 has less viscosity improvers in the chemical makeup, so it tends to be more sheer resistant (ie less chance that it will sheer down a grade over the course of an oil change interval). Oils with less point spreads tend to be more sheer resistance because of this. (One of the reasons why 5w-20 semi-syn's are actually decent oils).

The advantage of the 5w-30 is better startup/cold weather flow. If you were in the snow belt, I'd try 10w-30 after winter, and back to 5w-30 during the colder months. You could probably run 10w-30 year round though. Just do a UOA and see how its doing!

Everyone should do a UOA on their vehicle at least once, lets you check for leaks and such without a full teardown.

[Betelgeuse]

I've seen better reports but my engine is pretty happy for now Iron has gone down but silicon up a little ( I might need to oil the filter). Fuel dilution hasn't changed and no antifreeze. Not too surprised on the viscosity.

[Peter B]

Hey
I have been reading this thread and It looks like the best two options are clearly either the PP or the M1

My question is I too have heard the wax stories about Pennzoil. A kid at autozone told me they still use it. He seemed to know alot about cars... alot more then me anyhow and he said the mobil 1 was the better option.
Today while slacking at work I checked online to see if I could find anything about this. From pennzoil's sight I found a QA section Pennzoil Frequently Asked Questions. Question 4 addressed the wax issue and Pennzoil does say they use paraffins in their products, and seem to indicate that the PP does contain paraffins. I know from working in the painting industry that paraffin usually means paraffin wax, and well that makes me hesitant to put it in my car.

Thoughts? Anyone use PP and actually check for sludge?

-Pete

[dadasracecar]

I used M1 for a long time and always got watery green solids in my catch can. With PP it's black and oily like it should be. I'm guessing the detergents in M1 don't go well with the fuel leaking down the cylinder walls that DI is known for. PP is cheaper as well and stands up to fuel dilution better than M1. PP FTW.

[arkenzo]

No one using Valvoline? I just changed my stock oil ~2K miles, to valvoline synpower 10w30 and everything went smoothly, along with a new filter and o-rings. Everything seems to run just fine and fuel economy has improved.

Surprised no one is using Valvoline though, it's hella good oil, minus the fact that they don't advertise as much on T.V.

[desertrat]

anyone use Amsoil? I have the last two changes, next one I'll try and get an UOA. As far as I know they are 100% synthetic. Most other synthetics are blends and not pure.

[javanc]

I just collected a sample to send to Blackstone labs. However the place that i got the oil change done at failed to rem to collect the sample from the oil pan stream, so they got 4oz from the canister that holds the oil filter.

Does anyone see any drawbacks to this method? Will there be excessive sediment, aka metals? Im not sure of how the oil flows thru the cansiter and to the filter on this setup so any insights would be helpful.

[div2]

From the Blackstone Labs FAQ:

What about the oil left in the filter? Can I use that instead?

Sure, just make a note on the slip that the oil came from the filter. If something really bizarre shows up, we'll take that into account. It shouldn't change much in the analysis, though.

The FAQ also notes that a minimum of 2.5 oz is needed to perform all the tests, so you should be fine. As I mentioned earlier, I use the sample pump that Blackstone sells. With the pump I don't have to worry with getting the oil change guy to collect the oil, and I can also obtain a UOA without having to perform an oil change.

[Doc]

on the subject of oil.. i am assuming your manual states only to use 5w-30?

our manual has a spread of grades over different temperature ranges..

ill re check the figures.. but its defiantly got 5-30 10-30 and even straight 30 grade as well as 5-40-10-40 and i think there may even be a 50 grade in there as well.. however i will check on that last one..

Hence the reason I am running a RP 10-40.. the thicker oil makes me feel a little bit better about giving it a good flogging.. and leaving it in their for longer than 5000km's.. ill prob leave it in for 10k (normal service down here)

Cheers

Doc

[div2]

Here is my latest UOA on the MS3. I'm still running Mobil 1 5W-30.
Looks pretty good, if I do say so myself. Here are Blackstone's comments:

"Everything looks good in the latest sample from your Mazda. Silicon finally reads close enough to average levels that we can consider it normal, and no other harmful contaminants were found. Iron is still a bit above average
but all wear has been steadily moving in the right direction. It took a little longer than usual for your engine to mature past break-in but better late than never. This oil still had some active additive left in it with a TBN of 3.4. 1.0 is low. It looks like you're going to keep your oil runs around 5,000 miles and we think that's working well for you."

Miles on engine 25109
Miles on oil 4989
Date sampled 10/06/08
Make Up Oil 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 27
Copper 5
Lead 0
Tin 1
Moly 97
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 53
Silicon 7
Sodium 7
Calcium 2365
Magnesium 13
Phosphorus 627
Zinc 832
Barium 0

Sus Visc @ 210F 55.5 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 8.92 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 385 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN 3.4

[SLS MS3]

I've been using PP ever since my first oil change. I used the factory fill for the first 2.5k miles, then did another oil change at 5k miles and every 5k since. Initially I used 5w30, but at 20k miles I switched to 10w30 for it's better sheer resistance. Here's the UOA from my 30k mile oil change a couple months ago.



"It looks like the ~5,000 mile oil change intervals have been working out for you. Our universal averages show typical wear from the Mazda 2.3L after ~4,000 miles on the oil. This oil was run a bit longer than that and you can see how nicely your engine wears compared to most. We're all for extended oil use and we don't think 6,000 miles would be too many to run the oil in your Mazda. With wear looking this good you may be able to go longer. Only a slightly low viscosity kept this from being a perfect report and that doesn't seem to be a problem. Nice!"

Miles on engine - 29,930
Miles on oil - 4,862
Date sampled 07/02/08
Make Up Oil Added - 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Pennzoil Platinum 10W/30

Aluminum - 2
Iron - 10
Copper - 1
Molybdenum - 44
Boron - 22
Silicon - 3
Calcium - 2909
Magnesium - 11
Phosphorus - 632
Zinc - 702

Sus Visc @ 210F - 57.4 (should be 59-65)
cST Visc @ 100 C - 9.48 (should be 9.9-11.9)
Flashpoint in F - 395 (should be >365)
Fuel % - <0.5 (should be <2.0)
Antifreeze - 0.0
Water % - 0.0 (should be <0.1)
Insolubles % - 0.3 (should be <0.6)

[MadOzodi]

First oil change was just under 1,500 miles...used Mobil 1 then and for the next 2 oil changes at roughly 5k and 10k miles up until 14,987 miles when I switched to PP 5w-30.


"Nothing too unusual showed up in this first sample from your Mazda (Matsuda in Japan). Universal averages show typical wear from this type of engine after 4200 miles on the oil. Iron was a bit higher than average, but all other wear looks okay, so we don't think this shows a problem developing. We'll watch iron next time. You ran the oil longer and this caused some of the high iron. The viscosity was a little low, but not low enough to affect wear. The TBN was 3.9; additive life remained. We think 1.0 is too low for extended use. Resample @ 4K miles to keep iron at bay."


Miles on oil - 5,124
Miles on engine - 20,021 (at time sample was taken)
Date sampled - 09/20/08
Make Up Oil Added - 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30

Aluminum - 4
Chromium - 1
Iron - 34
Copper - 13
Lead - 1
Tin - 0
Molybdenum - 51
Nickel - 0
Manganese - 1
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 0
Boron - 25
Silicon - 5
Sodium - 2
Calcium - 2590
Magnesium - 14
Phosphorus - 593
Zinc - 735
Barium - 0

Sus Visc @ 210F - 54.4 (should be 56-63)
cST Visc @ 100 C - 8.59 (should be 9.1-11.3)
Flashpoint in F - 410 (should be >365)
Fuel % - <0.5 (should be <2.0)
Antifreeze - 0.0
Water % - 0.0 (should be <0.1)
Insolubles % - 0.3 (should be <0.6)

TBN - 3.9

[div2]

Here are the results of my last two UOAs- along with Blackstone's comments. I'm still running Mobil 1 5W-30.

"Everything looks good in the latest sample from your Mazda. Silicon finally reads close enough to average levels that we can consider it normal, and no other harmful contaminants were found. Iron is still a bit above average but all wear has been steadily moving in the right direction. It took a little longer than usual for your engine to mature past break-in but better late than never. This oil still had some active additive left in it with a TBN of 3.4. 1.0 is low. It looks like you're going to keep your oil runs around 5,000 miles and we think that's working well for you."

Miles on engine 25109
Miles on oil 4989
Date sampled 10/06/08
Make Up Oil 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 27
Copper 5
Lead 0
Tin 1
Moly 97
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 53
Silicon 7
Sodium 7
Calcium 2365
Magnesium 13
Phosphorus 627
Zinc 832
Barium 0

Sus Visc @ 210F- 55.5 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100C- 8.92 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F-385 should be >365
Fuel %- <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN 3.4


"Wear and silicon dropped in this sample, which was run about the same miles as you've been using for your Mazda. Compare this sample to universal averages and you can see that your engine is wearing normally, so we think you could easily run the oil longer, if you want. Averages are based on 4,130-miles on the oil. You were up to 5,182-without incident. No moisture, fuel, or coolant found. Insolubles (oil oxidation due to heat, use and blow-by) were okay at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. The TBN was 3.8, good to go for more miles."

Miles on engine 29870
Miles on oil 4546
Date sampled 1/13/09
Make Up Oil 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 2
Chromium 1
Iron 25
Copper 2
Lead 1
Tin 1
Moly 82
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 0
Boron 46
Silicon 5
Sodium 16
Calcium 2165
Magnesium 13
Phosphorus 583
Zinc 730
Barium 0

Sus Visc @ 210F- 57.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100C- 9.43 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F- 385 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze- 0.0
Water %- 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles %- 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN- 3.8

[xcoldricex]

thanks to everyone who posted UOA's.

hal did you ever get some RP tested?

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex thanks to everyone who posted UOA's. hal did you ever get some RP tested?

Im sending off my sample tomorrow when i change to the PP 5/40

[udontknowjack]

Originally Posted by Haltech Im sending off my sample tomorrow when i change to the PP 5/40

did you ever get the result back hal??

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by udontknowjack did you ever get the result back hal??

There is still traces of RP in my oil, so around March i can send a sample back. The cool thing is, they didnt charge me for the sample this time around because of that. This next sample will be completely flushed of RP to give me a good breakdown.

I want to see how the Rotella is doing since they are advising him to go 6500. Rotella is easier for me to purchase locally, then PP.

[MadOzodi]

Just sent my PP 5w-30 sample off yesterday. I'll be sure to post my results.

[Frequentflyer]

SLS, what are your commuting habits? Lots of highway, city or a mix?

[Boosted333]

Here's my oil sample analysis, from Blackstone labs. I had 7,355 miles with Amsoil Signature Series oil and a Wix oil filter, was still on break-in.

[xEradx]

Originally Posted by Boosted333 Here's my oil sample analysis, from Blackstone labs. I had 7,355 miles with Amsoil Signature Series oil and a Wix oil filter, was still on break-in.

this is mine with almost same miles on oil.

[ONLYA6]

That's odd... no one using Royal Purple? I use 10w30 RP in my turboed Mustang and I'm going to start using it in my MS3 when I change the oil again. I got a killer deal on it at $4.00/qt and stocked up on it.

[Frequentflyer]

Wow Boosted, 7355 miles between changes. You're brave.

Seems like 5-6k is the sweet spot.

I've got a sample kit on the way to me and will be sending them off some of my Rotella T syn 5w-40 soon.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Wow Boosted, 7355 miles between changes. You're brave. Seems like 5-6k is the sweet spot. I've got a sample kit on the way to me and will be sending them off some of my Rotella T syn 5w-40 soon.

Ive heard good things about the Rotella.. if your samples come back on par with the PP, ill probably switch. It costs me $60 to get 6 qts of PP 5/40 Euro blend.

[Nikolai]

Here's my latest UOA, and first post for that matter. PP FTW!

[Boosted333]

Doesn't the manual say 7,500 miles? I figured with a good synthetic I'd be fine. I think i'm going to stick to about 5,000 miles or so from now on.