2010+ Mazdaspeed 3, I recommend to monitor your fuel pumps closely

[dachtler]

I have a CS SRI+TIP, 91 oct fuel (damn CA), and stock everything else. I'm currently running the Stg2 safe map, but will switch over to the Stg1 map for the CS SRI+TIP and post some logs for you, if that will help.

[dizzydtrain]

Originally Posted by dachtler I have a CS SRI+TIP, 91 oct fuel (damn CA), and stock everything else. I'm currently running the Stg2 safe map, but will switch over to the Stg1 map for the CS SRI+TIP and post some logs for you, if that will help.

That would be great man. Thanks a lot.

[Teethkikr]

Here is a 3rd gear pull.. Stage1+SRI+CDFP+93 octane Map
datalog4.csv

[JTMS3]

Originally Posted by Teethkikr Here is a 3rd gear pull.. Stage1+SRI+CDFP+93 octane Map Attachment 25814

damn your WGDC isn't looking good. Need a DP sir!

[Teethkikr]

I have seen the 100% on our cars before.. I am not too worried about it.. Boost is holding well and everything looks good to me. I want to get a DP but not yet

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Teethkikr I have seen the 100% on our cars before.. I am not too worried about it.. Boost is holding well and everything looks good to me. I want to get a DP but not yet

You likely know this, but he is saying that a downpipe (I agree you are are fine) will help your exhaust flow quite a bit, and your wastegate duty will go down some with one.

[Speed3eak]

Or...

Get a test pipe/race pipe.

Easy to install, and will let you run the same boost @ lower wgdc.

Don't get me wrong, stock DP is crap and a huge restriction, but looking at it, I have absolutely no desire to root around in there and swap it out for a better aftermarket DP unless I decide down the road that I want to go BT. Lots of people have them and are happy with them, but for me simplicity is king. SRI+TP+TMIC+AP and I'm calling it a day.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Or... Get a test pipe/race pipe. Easy to install, and will let you run the same boost @ lower wgdc. Don't get me wrong, stock DP is crap and a huge restriction, but looking at it, I have absolutely no desire to root around in there and swap it out for a better aftermarket DP unless I decide down the road that I want to go BT. Lots of people have them and are happy with them, but for me simplicity is king. SRI+TP+TMIC+AP and I'm calling it a day.

Hey Speed3eak... good to hear from you... I might do this too (already have a ur race pipe)... How do the stage 2 maps run with the race pipe?

[indianaryan]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Or... Get a test pipe/race pipe. Easy to install, and will let you run the same boost @ lower wgdc. Don't get me wrong, stock DP is crap and a huge restriction, but looking at it, I have absolutely no desire to root around in there and swap it out for a better aftermarket DP unless I decide down the road that I want to go BT. Lots of people have them and are happy with them, but for me simplicity is king. SRI+TP+TMIC+AP and I'm calling it a day.

Doesn't the 100% WGDC also put a lot of stress on the turbo?

[Teethkikr]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 You likely know this, but he is saying that a downpipe (I agree you are are fine) will help your exhaust flow quite a bit, and your wastegate duty will go down some with one.

Yeah absolutely.. I know that this is the next step to get moar power but I am just not ready yet.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by indianaryan Doesn't the 100% WGDC also put a lot of stress on the turbo?

I know that Christian has seen logs with the wastegate maxed, and the boost selenoid is maxed, but I can't answer this technically about a pressure based tune.

If it were dangerous, I don't think Christian (having seen 100% duty cycles) would have released the beta maps though.

[wolly6973]

If you don't want to do the dp, at least get a tp. It should help out, and the install is way way easier.

[memoriesmazda]

So i bought the AP and had to un-intall my TP untill i get a fuel pump. Im currently running just a cobb SRI and the Stg 1 + SF+93 oct. Map. I am monitoring my Fuel Pressure, but at what PSI should i be concerned about? What ive seen is doesn't go above 1800. Also, like a week after i tuned the car i got a code on the ap that said, "Engine over boost Condition" or somthing like that. Cleared it and it hasn't came back on but should i be concerned about that also? any help would be great.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by memoriesmazda So i bought the AP and had to un-intall my TP untill i get a fuel pump. Im currently running just a cobb SRI and the Stg 1 + SF+93 oct. Map. I am monitoring my Fuel Pressure, but at what PSI should i be concerned about? What ive seen is doesn't go above 1800. Also, like a week after i tuned the car i got a code on the ap that said, "Engine over boost Condition" or somthing like that. Cleared it and it hasn't came back on but should i be concerned about that also? any help would be great.

Check this link out when you have the chance...

http://accessecu.com/support/docs/su...0Guidance.html

[Teethkikr]

Wow... Um.. have you read anything in all of these AP threads about your FP???? Come on man.....

[spoof3r]

This is just great; I've been studying this thread and its sources for over an hour now! Lost as ever!!!

Regardless of my stock FP readings I am going to upgrade it now (at least get in line). Now I'm at a complete loss as to whether or not the board's recommendation is to go with CP-e or internals. This also begs the question of which internals are preferred and seem to have been tried and proven with logging more than the other? Obviously it's been narrowed down to KMD or AutoTech.

I was sold on purchasing the CP-e pump but have completely changed my mind with this whole "stock-map only" issue.

[wolly6973]

KMD is more proven on our platform. People have only recently began using the Autotechs.
So far the logs of the Autotechs look fabulous, but only time will tell how well they hold up.

[spoof3r]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 KMD is more proven on our platform. People have only recently began using the Autotechs. So far the logs of the Autotechs look fabulous, but only time will tell how well they hold up.

Have you installed your Autotech internals yet? How are they holding up and how many miles do you have on them?

Everywhere I look for the KMD (or AutoTech) internals it says they are for the 2.0T FSI (VW and Audi), which are indeed the correct ones, right? I am just nervous as to finding a credible source to purchase them from because it appears that some company out there was selling KMD knockoffs.


EDIT: Well I took a leap of faith and just purchased the Autotech internals. I was in the VW scene for a long time and am still on VWVortex. While APR was the winner of all three brands (in most areas, not just FPs), Autotech usually beat KMD when it came to quality. Although that was usually for direct fuel pump replacements, but at this point I feel upgraded internals are a better option than the CP-e direct replacement. I am curious to see how these CP-e issues are resolved.

[bcmountainspeed]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 If you don't want to do the dp, at least get a tp. It should help out, and the install is way way easier.

this is exactly what I'm looking at because my only concern with my data logs is wgdc maxing out to maintain target boost and now that ATR is out i was thinking maybe I would try and tune for it but I'm gonna try a tp and see if that works.......and hopefully doesn't cause mt fp to fail LOL

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by spoof3r Have you installed your Autotech internals yet? How are they holding up and how many miles do you have on them? Everywhere I look for the KMD (or AutoTech) internals it says they are for the 2.0T FSI (VW and Audi), which are indeed the correct ones, right? I am just nervous as to finding a credible source to purchase them from because it appears that some company out there was selling KMD knockoffs.

My internals won't be here until Thursday.

[Nataphen]

I can't believe that CPE said that shit! I think that I'm about to be making some calls on your behalf, dizzy. If they don't change their stance on this, I have the cash for Autotech internals ready to go. I was holding out for the CPE, but I'm not going to stand for that line of bullshit. I will remove them from my OP if they don't change their tune.

[Teethkikr]

I have to be honest.. Myself and nobody else knows what the future holds as far as long term durability on ANY of these options BUT I am seeing great pressures from my Autotechs and thats all that matters. They work, were in stock, and were cheaper. I dont need to pay for another shell of a pump when only the internals need done. This is strictly opinion and I can only base this off of what I see.

[Mchart]

I paid Joe at Dynotronics for an upgraded pump w/ KMD internals. Still more expensive then doing it by yourself, but was still a bit cheaper then the CP-E pump.

And I agree that we truly don't know long term durability of these upgraded pumps. That said, some have been running them for 30k miles now with no issues. As long as it lasts me two more years i'll be happy. I'm allready planning on selling the Speed3 here in the UK for a RS3 before I leave back for the states.

[dizzydtrain]

Originally Posted by Nataphen I can't believe that CPE said that shit! I think that I'm about to be making some calls on your behalf, dizzy. If they don't change their stance on this, I have the cash for Autotech internals ready to go. I was holding out for the CPE, but I'm not going to stand for that line of bullshit. I will remove them from my OP if they don't change their tune.

What's up Nate, I thought I would have seen you earlier in this thread. Thanks for looking into this as well, everyone has been really helpful getting logs to me.

It's really disappointing especially when I received my initial reply from cpe regarding stock tune, etc. Since then Sander has been good with getting back to me and I sent him some preliminary logs of Gen2's running ap stg1 tunes with Autotech and cp-e pumps--I will keep you posted as soon as I know more.

I am obviously disappointed because I feel like I did not get what I paid for and I can't really enjoy my car for the time being either until this is resolved--but i am glad that people are more aware that our platform is starting to see more and more options.

[rfinkle2]

I have a datalog to send to you (Dizzy), but my pressure is good today. That is likely because it is a bit warmer today.

I'll send it to you in the event you want to use it anyway.

I had to do an maf revision after I logged this. My ltft's were pretty high....

[rfinkle2]

Edit: This post was of no benefit to msf.org.

[Nataphen]

Dizzy, I really haven't been on the boards at all lately. I finally had some spare time last night to catch up to my subbed threads. Keep me posted on what they do to take care of you on this. If they don't make it right, I will be raising all the hell that I'm capable of raising to get them to step up.

Usually, CPE pumps see over 1800psi on these cars, up to nearly 2000. I've never seen under 1700 either, so I'm thinking that they have had a bad pump to slip under their radar. A bad part here and there is going to happen, but they need to take care of it when it does.

[dizzydtrain]

No official update on the situation. Sander is supposed to get back to me after I provided him with around 12-14 logs of Gen2's running stg 1 with upgraded internals (either cp-e or autotech).

I just did another quick datalog to see how the pump is holding up...haven't been ragging on the car. Unless I am missing something, everything looks ok besides another dip in fuel pressure. It did not dip into the 1400's but I am having a hard time breaking past 1700 for pressure.

I will keep you guys posted.

[indianaryan]

I got my Accessport and started logging. I'm on the "Stage1+cpCAI 91 Octane BT" Map. My FP was fine throughout 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear, except for log "S1 CP-E CAI 2nd (3).csv". I felt the car really bogging down, looked at the ap and saw the fp was down around 900 to 1,000 psi. Also, it looks like my WGDC was hitting 100% during WOT.

[rfinkle2]

@indianaryan-I think the stage 1 OTS maps are designed for the factory pump with the below caveats:

italics from ATR helpfile:

Please be sure to verify that your fueling capacity is capable of keeping up with fueling demand. If you see your DI Fuel Pressure drop below 1200psi while
at WOT, then we highly suggest you upgrade your CDFP. The stock CDFP usually hold DI Fuel Pressure at ~1500-1600psi, most high-flow CDFP usually
hold DI Fuel Pressure at 1600-1800psi. We highly suggest you verify fueling supply is capable of fueling demand and that you set various limit tables
appropriately.


This is also from the ATR helpfile... and comments on the BCS

If the wastegate duty cycle values are too low, you will not achieve your target boost
pressure. If the wastegate duty cycle values are too high, you will overshoot your boost targets and potentially damage the engine. Driving wastegate duty
cycles of more than 95% can compromise the longevity of the wastegate solenoid

[indianaryan]

Unfortunately I've seen the FP drop to 900 psi multiple times now in 2nd gear. In 3rd gear the FP has dropped to 14xx a couple times. The stock pump isn't holding up.

With the WGDC hitting 100% consistently, I wonder if I need to get into ATR and lower that. I've read the ATR helpfile and most of it is way over my head, so I'm hesitant to mess with anything in ATR until I do some more research.

In the meantime, I guess I'll run the Stage2 Safe Map if the FP drops continue to be a consistent thing in 2nd gear.

[wolly6973]

You definitely need to switch to safe mode if that is what is happening.
You will notice that the car will run smoother and stronger on the safe mode map if the ECU is happy with everything (i.e. fp for you).
I took the safe mode map, upped the boost a little, and leaned it out, and my car is loving it!
My autotech internals should be here tomorrow though, so I get to start tuning all over!

[bcmountainspeed]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 @indianaryan-I think the stage 1 OTS maps are designed for the factory pump with the below caveats: italics from ATR helpfile: Please be sure to verify that your fueling capacity is capable of keeping up with fueling demand. If you see your DI Fuel Pressure drop below 1200psi while at WOT, then we highly suggest you upgrade your CDFP. The stock CDFP usually hold DI Fuel Pressure at ~1500-1600psi, most high-flow CDFP usually hold DI Fuel Pressure at 1600-1800psi. We highly suggest you verify fueling supply is capable of fueling demand and that you set various limit tables appropriately. This is also from the ATR helpfile... and comments on the BCS If the wastegate duty cycle values are too low, you will not achieve your target boost pressure. If the wastegate duty cycle values are too high, you will overshoot your boost targets and potentially damage the engine. Driving wastegate duty cycles of more than 95% can compromise the longevity of the wastegate solenoid

I'm just home from work so bare with me (I'm fucking tired) but at 100% wgdc you would see the boost target being too high wouldn't you?
I know I've been posting logs with this symptom and was going to look in to lowering my boost targets through ATR (or possibly trying a tp) but it just seems too much for me right now to figure out how to tune myself........my fp is fine although I haven't logged since it warmed up





maybe I should get some sleep first I think I might be rambling LOL

[Snotrocket]

stage 1 i was dropping below 900 at WOT....

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by indianaryan Unfortunately I've seen the FP drop to 900 psi multiple times now in 2nd gear. In 3rd gear the FP has dropped to 14xx a couple times. The stock pump isn't holding up. With the WGDC hitting 100% consistently, I wonder if I need to get into ATR and lower that. I've read the ATR helpfile and most of it is way over my head, so I'm hesitant to mess with anything in ATR until I do some more research. In the meantime, I guess I'll run the Stage2 Safe Map if the FP drops continue to be a consistent thing in 2nd gear.

@indianaryan That sounds like a good plan if you are having fp drop below 1200.
Fwiw, I think the questions as far as the wgdc @ 100% is more a long term concern.
(i.e. if you were a track person, and always driving the car to its limits etc,,, the bcs would be worked @ max more often and more frequently.)

I think that you should request atr, and without saving the maps, open up the tables so that the ATR help file doesn't look like chinese.
Keep in mind that you don't have to change the paramaters drastically, and you can also choose not to save the map (and still work with it in ATR) to see what is really going on.

Originally Posted by bcmountainspeed I'm just home from work so bare with me (I'm fucking tired) but at 100% wgdc you would see the boost target being too high wouldn't you? I know I've been posting logs with this symptom and was going to look in to lowering my boost targets through ATR (or possibly trying a tp) but it just seems too much for me right now to figure out how to tune myself........my fp is fine although I haven't logged since it warmed up maybe I should get some sleep first I think I might be rambling LOL

@bcmountainspeed

If you read the addendum 2 in the ATR helpfile, you will notice Christian/Cobb discussing the relationship between the boost error (boost dynamics table) and the WGDC.
(pg. 69, 70 & 71 specifically. )
@wolly6973 seems to have a great handle on his maps, and seems to be very helpful. Maybe you can ask him how modifying his wgdc altered his boost levels. I haven't had a chance to modify my boost targets etc. because I only drive my car on the weekends.

[indianaryan]

Originally Posted by bcmountainspeed I'm just home from work so bare with me (I'm fucking tired) but at 100% wgdc you would see the boost target being too high wouldn't you? I know I've been posting logs with this symptom and was going to look in to lowering my boost targets through ATR (or possibly trying a tp) but it just seems too much for me right now to figure out how to tune myself........my fp is fine although I haven't logged since it warmed up maybe I should get some sleep first I think I might be rambling LOL

Yes, I'm overshooting my boost targets by 1.5 psi, sometimes slightly more. From what I can tell, lowering the WGDC values will help lower the boost down closer to 17.5 psi. I read in the help file that lowering the values just before the spike to 19 psi will help with that. I have no idea where to begin though. Do I just slightly lower the values a little at a time?

Wolly, you mentioned that you took the safe map and raised the boost targets. I suppose I can take the Stage1 map and lower the boost targets?

[wolly6973]

I upped my wgdc table in the lower rpms so that when I start to go WOT, the wg is already closer to where it needs to be and will build boost a little quicker.
I also modified my OL/CL transition as Dano suggests in his Boost Tuning 101.
I am loving it so far.
My fp is going to be here today, so I get to do it all over again with a new map!

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by indianaryan Yes, I'm overshooting my boost targets by 1.5 psi, sometimes slightly more. From what I can tell, lowering the WGDC values will help lower the boost down closer to 17.5 psi. I read in the help file that lowering the values just before the spike to 19 psi will help with that. I have no idea where to begin though. Do I just slightly lower the values a little at a time? Wolly, you mentioned that you took the safe map and raised the boost targets. I suppose I can take the Stage1 map and lower the boost targets?

When you open the ATR helpfile, on pg. 69,70, 71 you'll see the table for boost targets when you load the map. Lower the boost by a bit, log and see what happens to your wgdc.

Think of it this way, you are moving towards safety when lowering the boost targets.

@wolly6973 - @ what increments did you begin to change your boost targets in ATR...

Keep in mind guys, that Dano's WGDC are going to look a bit wacky due to his tunning a Grimmspeed 3 port boost control solenoid.

[Teethkikr]

I am seeing 100% WDDC at times like some others are.. The only way to lower this is through tuning??? If so, why would COBB make it that way to begin with??

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Teethkikr I am seeing 100% WDDC at times like some others are.. The only way to lower this is through tuning??? If so, why would COBB make it that way to begin with??

IMO, it is not that much of a worry.

Christian has seen that in the logs.

You can lower your wgdc mechanically and through tuning.

A test pipe or down pipe will do the trick. (but then you will need a fuel pump and run a stage 2 tune, or the stage 2 safe mode tune without the pump.)