Prolong life of rebuilt longblock

[VA2010MS3]

Cyl 3 finally took a shit sitting at 60psi cold...looking at a ATK remaned long block and possibly a BNR S4 build too....I looking for help on what to replace/add to prolong the life of the engine such as occ which brand and thoughts about egr delete I dont need to worry about emission testing

[5doorsoffury]

What i have found in all my research regarding this boils down to 2 things as far as longevity is considered. Number 1 is a solid tune. Number 2 is copious amounts of alcohol( both ingested and injected) cyl temps and torque are key.
Next up is stock power levels allow 100k+ out of a rebuild block reliably. 400 hp power levels is borrowed time. Where do you fall in that scenario?

So how much power are you looking for "reliably"?

Occ is a must do mod imho.

Egr delete is a meh issue. There are pros and cons for that one.

E85 is like golden tight pussy after not getting pee pee touches for months on end.

Last but really is first is the quality of the rebuild. What is there warranty?

[VA2010MS3]

Id be happy between 300-350 looking to stay on 93 and figured the egr delete would help with carbon build up...ATK rebuilds a good longblock got one for my 240 years ago had some issue where the head was eating away at the cams they sent me a replacement no questions asked, there warranty is 3yrs unlimited mileage

[5doorsoffury]

Originally Posted by VA2010MS3 Id be happy between 300-350 looking to stay on 93 and figured the egr delete would help with carbon build up...ATK rebuilds a good longblock got one for my 240 years ago had some issue where the head was eating away at the cams they sent me a replacement no questions asked, there warranty is 3yrs unlimited mileage

I would stick with the ko4 fully bolted with meth and a solid etune for e85. Spend your money on suspension, meth and bitches!!

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by VA2010MS3 Cyl 3 finally took a shit sitting at 60psi cold...looking at a ATK remaned long block and possibly a BNR S4 build too....I looking for help on what to replace/add to prolong the life of the engine such as occ which brand and thoughts about egr delete I dont need to worry about emission testing

Darn that sucks.

What tune were you running? Do you self tune? How much Boost? Timing? and fuel type?

Did the car have any issues prior?

How many clicks on the odometer?

I've got 75k miles on my car and compression checks out at about 180 psi across all cylinders at 250 feet ASL.

If you:
- change the oil regularly with good quality oil,
- open the hood and listen to the engine, and inspect for leaks often, investigate unusual noises,
- run more octane than is necessary (remember that gasoline quality varies from winter to summer in certain areas),
- keep your clamps tight, and your BPV lubed,
- run alcohol in the gas tank and spray some water/meth to keep things cool, and to increase octane,
- keep torque at low rpm's to a minimum by targeting peak torque above 3500 rpm, and keeping it conservative on stock block,
- ensure your tune hits boost and AFR targets consistently without oscillations in various ambient temps, and pulls some timing with higher coolant temps,
- target richer AFR's instead of leaner, and taper it rich at high rpm's (I run 11.4 tapered to 11.2 at red line),
- run an OCC with a good breather setup,
- taper your boost curve at high rpm's if on the k04,
- hybrid tune by putting load caps in place,
- ensure the car doesn't knock at all during WOT,
- never go WOT in 6th gear,
- always monitor while driving,
and you should be ok.

It scares me when I hear about people having engine issues.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 - never go WOT in 6th gear,

How could I not go WOT in 6th? Do you think I'll let that GT-R pull in front at 130mph after I smoked his face from a 50 roll?? Dude...

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by mituc How could I not go WOT in 6th? Do you think I'll let that GT-R pull in front at 130mph after I smoked his face from a 50 roll?? Dude...

good point! I guess if your tune sucks, don't do it.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 good point! I guess if your tune sucks, don't do it.

Exactly (tune and setup)! All other things considered: good tune, quality fuel, a meth kit eventually, you can give it full beans every time, everywhere, in every gear.

Just make sure you give it from the right RPM and the tune is properly calibrated for the existing mods, fuel and fueling, cooling and so on, and you have all possible fail safes active (boost, load, various temps, you name it).

Sometimes, especially with the factory K04 but not limited to that, if you tune the car in 3rd and 4th make sure that if you plan to hoone it in 5th and 6th tuning those gears may also be required and they should end up with lower load and boost caps than 4th. the turbo and the engine will be under load for significantly longer times. A meth kit is quite useful for these long and hard pulls even on rebuilt long blocks.

And because we're talking about rebuilt long blocks here and most of the people are using 2618 alloy pistons which I just found out they can expand quite a lot when they are hot, you really need to be very careful with the oil choices in the cold seasons and with how you run the car. A 0w40 or 0w50 oil will flow a lot better at low temps and provide lubrication very very quickly even compared to a 5w40 (I'm not even bringing into discussion a 10w oil).

When the blocks are rebuilt and pistons fitted that happens at about temperature room, so they're warm-ish. At freezing temperatures these pistons can put quite a gap between them and the cylinder walls, and that's when you want oil quickly in between.

Long story short, heat and detonation is the enemy of all engines. With rebuilt engines used in daily driving there's one more hidden enemy, which is the big gap between the pistons and cylinders so lack of lubrication especially at low temps will add a lot of premature wear to the engine.

[Cheapspeed]

I don't believe EGR delete is any good for longevity in my opinion, hotter cruising temps and worse mileage.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed I don't believe EGR delete is any good for longevity in my opinion, hotter cruising temps and worse mileage.

Your statement is definitely true that without EGR your EGTs are higher at cruising....there is no data to suggest that it will really decrease the longevity of the motor. IMO it just effects emissions and fuel economy more than anything else.

In fact, there are people that actually burn it leaner at cruising to get better fuel efficiency and do not have an issue.

Tune. That's where the money shot is.

[VA2010MS3]

one other question im assuming the car is tuned due to no boost cuts in 1st or 2nd no AP came with it if i plan in getting a custom etune for the big turbo build do i have to start with a stock map or can the tuner work with just a list of mods and other info

[frothy]

Originally Posted by VA2010MS3 one other question im assuming the car is tuned due to no boost cuts in 1st or 2nd no AP came with it if i plan in getting a custom etune for the big turbo build do i have to start with a stock map or can the tuner work with just a list of mods and other info

The question regarding your AP has already been discussed in one of your prior threads: PO says ms3 has stage 2 tune..... If the car had a tune on it there's no reason for the seller not to give you the AP. The AP is as useful as a paperweight to anyone but yourself if it's truly married to your car. So, no, I would not assume the car is running anything other than a stock tune. And even if it was, you have no means of altering it or knowing if it is in fact a proper tune suited for your car.

Unless you found other mods since you purchased the car, all it had was an HSK(sic?) SRI and an unknown brand catback exhaust. You never reported back as to whether the car had upgraded fuel pump internals or a downpipe...

As for tuning, you would need a tuning solution first (AP or Versatuner). Provide your tuner with a list of mods on the car and they'll provide you with a base map and work with you from there.

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 How many clicks on the odometer?

Car had over 125k miles on it as of July of 2015 (around the time he acquired it). OP discovered low compression and oil in cyl3 a little over a month later.

Car was also experiencing misfires and throwing codes for it, but it appears that was due to bad plugs (OP replaced them with 1 step colder...).

The car's had 4 owners. The owner who had the vehicle before OP never had possession of an AP, yet claimed the car had a Stage 2 tune because that's what he had been told by owner #2 .

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by mituc Exactly (tune and setup)! All other things considered: good tune, quality fuel, a meth kit eventually, you can give it full beans every time, everywhere, in every gear. Just make sure you give it from the right RPM and the tune is properly calibrated for the existing mods, fuel and fueling, cooling and so on, and you have all possible fail safes active (boost, load, various temps, you name it). Sometimes, especially with the factory K04 but not limited to that, if you tune the car in 3rd and 4th make sure that if you plan to hoone it in 5th and 6th tuning those gears may also be required and they should end up with lower load and boost caps than 4th. the turbo and the engine will be under load for significantly longer times. A meth kit is quite useful for these long and hard pulls even on rebuilt long blocks. And because we're talking about rebuilt long blocks here and most of the people are using 2618 alloy pistons which I just found out they can expand quite a lot when they are hot, you really need to be very careful with the oil choices in the cold seasons and with how you run the car. A 0w40 or 0w50 oil will flow a lot better at low temps and provide lubrication very very quickly even compared to a 5w40 (I'm not even bringing into discussion a 10w oil). When the blocks are rebuilt and pistons fitted that happens at about temperature room, so they're warm-ish. At freezing temperatures these pistons can put quite a gap between them and the cylinder walls, and that's when you want oil quickly in between. Long story short, heat and detonation is the enemy of all engines. With rebuilt engines used in daily driving there's one more hidden enemy, which is the big gap between the pistons and cylinders so lack of lubrication especially at low temps will add a lot of premature wear to the engine.

Man you know your stuff! Originally I was limiting power output in 5th and 6th with the Boost Comp : 5th-6th Gear A and B tables, but found that it would effect other gears as well for some reason so I stopped using those and set them back to 1.00. I've currently got load caps set the same from 3rd to 6th. Should I lower the load caps AND throttle translations for 5th and 6th? What's the best method to limit load in 5th and 6th? And what values are good for the load error comp table? I currently have it like this:
load error comp.PNG
I'm under the impression that this table directly influences throttle changes during an over load situation.

Originally Posted by frothy Car had over 125k miles on it as of July of 2015 (around the time he acquired it). OP discovered low compression and oil in cyl3 a little over a month later. Car was also experiencing misfires and throwing codes for it, but it appears that was due to bad plugs (OP replaced them with 1 step colder...). The car's had 4 owners. The owner who had the vehicle before OP never had possession of an AP, yet claimed the car had a Stage 2 tune because that's what he had been told by owner #2 .

Gotcha! So chances are the car had been abused, and had been experiencing frequent detonation events particularly in cylinder 3 due to the stock intake manifold flow imbalance.
Thanks!

[mituc]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 I've currently got load caps set the same from 3rd to 6th. Should I lower the load caps AND throttle translations for 5th and 6th? What's the best method to limit load in 5th and 6th? And what values are good for the load error comp table? I currently have it like this: Attachment 229069 I'm under the impression that this table directly influences throttle changes during an over load situation.

That table alters the wastegate duty cycle if the load is under/over target. I'm not very familiar with the AP tune logic but I guess if you have a hybrid tune which is using mainly boost and then load only for capping boost probably you want to set the negative compensation part of that table to 0 (the left side).

As for limiting load/boost in 5th and even more in 6th... this is not an exact science, it depends on how you use your car. If you know you do long and hard pulls in 5th and 6th (especially the autobahn guys) I'd pay attention to how BATs and ECTs climb compared to a 4th gear pull.
If you go WOT in 5th and 6th but for limited amount of time (say, no more than like 7-8 seconds) and you do it from the "correct" RPM then I would not bother too much (but still monitor such a pull). If you're spraying meth then you're good, you can have the same load caps in all gears (3-6 at least) and not worry about it.

The idea is to have the car properly tuned for the situations you use it in.

As for "how much"... This is how I have it set for an autobahn guy:


If it's enough or not - we're not sure at this point, but as you can see I didn't want to compromise the mid range response and torque, but only limit the load where the heat levels increase. However, this is on a stock block, with built blocks things are a bit different because of the way the pistons manage and react to excess of heat.

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 Gotcha! So chances are the car had been abused, and had been experiencing frequent detonation events particularly in cylinder 3 due to the stock intake manifold flow imbalance. Thanks!

Cylinders 2 and 3 suffer from flow imbalance of the stock IM with the VCTS on and most importantly they suffer from excess of heat because they're in the middle of the engine. When the ECT goes above like 220F/105C when you're still pushing hard (track, drag, street course, whatever) those cylinders experience significantly higher temps than the others. The factory pistons may crack the ringlands in these situations. A larger radiator and meth or even only distilled water spray helps tremendously here.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by mituc That table alters the wastegate duty cycle if the load is under/over target. I'm not very familiar with the AP tune logic but I guess if you have a hybrid tune which is using mainly boost and then load only for capping boost probably you want to set the negative compensation part of that table to 0 (the left side). As for limiting load/boost in 5th and even more in 6th... this is not an exact science, it depends on how you use your car. If you know you do long and hard pulls in 5th and 6th (especially the autobahn guys) I'd pay attention to how BATs and ECTs climb compared to a 4th gear pull. If you go WOT in 5th and 6th but for limited amount of time (say, no more than like 7-8 seconds) and you do it from the "correct" RPM then I would not bother too much (but still monitor such a pull). If you're spraying meth then you're good, you can have the same load caps in all gears (3-6 at least) and not worry about it. The idea is to have the car properly tuned for the situations you use it in. As for "how much"... This is how I have it set for an autobahn guy: If it's enough or not - we're not sure at this point, but as you can see I didn't want to compromise the mid range response and torque, but only limit the load where the heat levels increase. However, this is on a stock block, with built blocks things are a bit different because of the way the pistons manage and react to excess of heat. Cylinders 2 and 3 suffer from flow imbalance of the stock IM with the VCTS on and most importantly they suffer from excess of heat because they're in the middle of the engine. When the ECT goes above like 220F/105C when you're still pushing hard (track, drag, street course, whatever) those cylinders experience significantly higher temps than the others. The factory pistons may crack the ringlands in these situations. A larger radiator and meth or even only distilled water spray helps tremendously here.

This is very good information. Thank you!