Rebuilding an already forged engine..

[I_AINT_RICE]

Hey everyone. Everything has been moving along beautifully. Purchased a block from a friend, will be ready tomorrow from the machine shop.

Sent the rod out to get the small bushing replaced on the rod along with an inspection to make sure its not bent.

Rings, lube, etc is all in the mail should arrive Thursday. Just have a few questions/concerns:

1. Ring gap.. What do all the big power guys gap their rings to?
2. How to tell if you have oversized main bearings? My crank diameter is 2.052" and the rod journal size is 2.165". Not sure what the stock crank is?

Think thats about it for the time being. Pics will be posted shortly.

[sheston]

Not sure I count as a big horse power guy, but I gapped mine per Wiseco's recommendation. Seems to be working well, been running for ~15k, running 30 psi, ....

[robbspeed]

Originally Posted by sheston Not sure I count as a big horse power guy, but I gapped mine per Wiseco's recommendation. Seems to be working well, been running for ~15k, running 30 psi, ....

You run 30 psi on a k04? That torque must be stupid lol.

[sheston]

I think I'm the one who's stupid. But built motor and I have fun with it. Only get to use it in 4th gear :-)

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by I_AINT_RICE Hey everyone. Everything has been moving along beautifully. Purchased a block from a friend, will be ready tomorrow from the machine shop. Sent the rod out to get the small bushing replaced on the rod along with an inspection to make sure its not bent. Rings, lube, etc is all in the mail should arrive Thursday. Just have a few questions/concerns: 1. Ring gap.. What do all the big power guys gap their rings to? 2. How to tell if you have oversized main bearings? My crank diameter is 2.052" and the rod journal size is 2.165". Not sure what the stock crank is? Think thats about it for the time being. Pics will be posted shortly.

Wiseco sends a sheet with the rings breaking down the way to determine gap. Google also has it readily available. If I was on a computer I'd post an image. From there it's a bit of a balance between boost level and driving habits.

I'd have to consult the assembly manual to find main bearing numbers. I'll look tomorrow if someone hasn't chimed in.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Mazdazilla6]

Rods and mains are both 52mm. You need to remeasure, the only way that's possible is if your measuring instrumentation is out of calibration or the crank has been previously welded and you're running bearings from another engine (highly unlikely). Exact spec from the manual:

Screen Shot 2016-09-01 at 2.56.01 PM.png

Edit: Or are you saying that the large end on your rod is 2.165"?

[I_AINT_RICE]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Rods and mains are both 52mm. You need to remeasure, the only way that's possible is if your measuring instrumentation is out of calibration or the crank has been previously welded and you're running bearings from another engine (highly unlikely). Exact spec from the manual: Attachment 228061 Edit: Or are you saying that the large end on your rod is 2.165"?

Thanks man!



Anyone know what size rod bearings these are? Oem not sure I'd they're oversized

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Dano]

Do you not have a 0 to 1 inch mic. you could just mic them to find out what size they are. You'd want to use the ball attachment to get the correct reading in the middle of the bearing.

Tappin

[Mazdazilla6]

Why reuse bearings in the first place? New ones are cheap, just figure out the crank journal size.

[I_AINT_RICE]

Got mahle bearings. I'll post pics within the next couple days. Should be putting the engine back together this weekend

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by I_AINT_RICE Pulled the engine apart: Missing 3 oil squirters Bearing look great The clutch was hardly hanging on Overall, doesnt look too bad Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

This is pretty much how much 6 puck looked after ~36k. I switched to SB Stg. 3 endurance and never looked back.

Originally Posted by I_AINT_RICE Hey everyone. Everything has been moving along beautifully. Purchased a block from a friend, will be ready tomorrow from the machine shop. Sent the rod out to get the small bushing replaced on the rod along with an inspection to make sure its not bent. Rings, lube, etc is all in the mail should arrive Thursday. Just have a few questions/concerns: 1. Ring gap.. What do all the big power guys gap their rings to? 2. How to tell if you have oversized main bearings? My crank diameter is 2.052" and the rod journal size is 2.165". Not sure what the stock crank is? Think thats about it for the time being. Pics will be posted shortly.

For ring gap I believe .0035 is what is recommended for us. Because I had my built motor rebuilt for the 2nd time, I ended up having to go with .0045. It probably wont last more than 60-70k, but I'm okay with that. So far ~1k in it seems fantastic, great compression results.

Did you replace all the wrist pins? The ones from my pauter rods were toasted when I took it out at 36k. It sounded like piston slap....in fact it was wrist pins big time.

Edit: These are Piston to Wall clearances.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff For ring gap I believe .0035 is what is recommended for us. Because I had my built motor rebuilt for the 2nd time, I ended up having to go with .0045. It probably wont last more than 60-70k, but I'm okay with that. So far ~1k in it seems fantastic, great compression results.

Those are PWC numbers you are mentioning, not ring gap. Ring gap based on Wiseco recommendations ends up around .018 and .020 depending on goals and preference.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Those are PWC numbers you are mentioning, not ring gap. Ring gap based on Wiseco recommendations ends up around .018 and .020 depending on goals and preference.

I stand corrected.

You ganna be boozing with us down at ENMMW tonight?

Edit: My ring gaps were set at:
First ring: .018
2nd ring: .020
Oil: .022

I also use the 88mm Wisecos. But it was also re-touch honed.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Hell. Here's my spec sheet.

88mm Wisecos + Pauter rods. Crank was a good used core. Cyls were honed again (2nd rebuild).

[I_AINT_RICE]

The guys running .018 & .020; you guys aren't getting any smoke/blow by? Car will probably be around 550whp with the comp turbo 5862. Trying to go as big as I can without it smoking. I've seen ring butting before on a 5.3, it ain't pretty

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Dano]

88mm Wisecos

1st ring .019
2nd ring .022

28-30PSI tune

zero smoke or oil loss at around 10K miles. 190 compression, 5-7% leakdown across the board.

[WetzMS3]

.018
.020

No issues to report, 17k-ish miles.

[I_AINT_RICE]

Got the crank in. Gotta torque it down and check end play. Reusing the main bearings because they looked perfect. Without being torqued down, there seemed to be a decent amount of crank end play. I'll get everything locked down then check. Gonna grab a pilot bushing and water pump o-ring and call it a night

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[mituc]

Ok, so I'm joining this club of people rebuilding already forged engines.

Long story short:
1. on Thu when I arrived at the hotel I noticed the engine was rattling when I opened the door. I was kind of surprised because the car was driving as usual and because of how roads and traffic is around here I have to go WOT quite a lot.
2. on Fri I drove from the hotel to the dealer (I was scheduled for some air con work).
3. checked the oil, it was half way between min and max;
4. they checked the timing chain, then pulled the valve cover and checked the timing, all was fine, even though the mechanic wanted to make a little adjustment because it was a fraction of a tooth off - which was explaining I think why my car was making a lot of torque (about 490) and not as much power (about 420-430 crank);
5. put everything together, did a compression test (kind of cold and dry): 170/0/175/175. Yes, 0 on cyl2.
6. checked the oil again and it was missing about one quart only from sitting on the hoist and being worked on and tested for compression.
7. attempted to start the car again and it was obviously running in 3 cyls.

At this point we're not sure what is going on, we'll find out on monday when they will pull the engine. It can be the piston, it can be the valves or the rings on that #2 .
The engine didn't have much left considering what they did and how everything turned, so I'm happy this happened on the hoist at my preferred dealer and not in the middle of a highway with the car full of luggage with my family in.

I'm leaning towards getting the SP63 4032 pistons but the manufacturing time is quite significant, so I may very well go for the Manley 2618 (630005C-4). We'll see.
I also want to add stiffer valve springs to be able to rev a bit higher. Otherwise this setup was absolutely perfect.

[I_AINT_RICE]

Originally Posted by mituc Ok, so I'm joining this club of people rebuilding already forged engines. Long story short: 1. on Thu when I arrived at the hotel I noticed the engine was rattling when I opened the door. I was kind of surprised because the car was driving as usual and because of how roads and traffic is around here I have to go WOT quite a lot. 2. on Fri I drove from the hotel to the dealer (I was scheduled for some air con work). 3. checked the oil, it was half way between min and max; 4. they checked the timing chain, then pulled the valve cover and checked the timing, all was fine, even though the mechanic wanted to make a little adjustment because it was a fraction of a tooth off - which was explaining I think why my car was making a lot of torque (about 490) and not as much power (about 420-430 crank); 5. put everything together, did a compression test (kind of cold and dry): 170/0/175/175. Yes, 0 on cyl2. 6. checked the oil again and it was missing about one quart only from sitting on the hoist and being worked on and tested for compression. 7. attempted to start the car again and it was obviously running in 3 cyls. At this point we're not sure what is going on, we'll find out on monday when they will pull the engine. It can be the piston, it can be the valves or the rings on that #2 . The engine didn't have much left considering what they did and how everything turned, so I'm happy this happened on the hoist at my preferred dealer and not in the middle of a highway with the car full of luggage with my family in. I'm leaning towards getting the SP63 4032 pistons but the manufacturing time is quite significant, so I may very well go for the Manley 2618 (630005C-4). We'll see. I also want to add stiffer valve springs to be able to rev a bit higher. Otherwise this setup was absolutely perfect.

With that little of compression, it sounds like a valve. Even with no rings, you'll have some compression.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Easter Bunny]

for ring end gap i would error on the side of too big over too small.

if in doubt go bigger

[I_AINT_RICE]

Had to purchase new mains. The crank end play was .014". Which is past the service limit. Went with king bearings MB5442SI. Always had good luck with kings, should be here Tuesday

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Gapped the rings.
.019 .024
Didn't touch the oil rails

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Bored hotside and comp turbo turbine just came in. Upped it from a 5858 to a 5862. Bearings will be in tomorrow

Got some unicorn blood too

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Got the crank in and mains torqued. Forgot to take pics. Also bent the oil squirters to clear the pistons. Gonna throw the pistons/rods in tomorrow and hopefully the head. Should be getting the thing back together this week.




Random pics while putting the turbo back together

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[mituc]

Don't you need to balance the turbo once you disassembled it?

[I_AINT_RICE]

Originally Posted by mituc Don't you need to balance the turbo once you disassembled it?

Only when you swap hard parts. And the turbine, various thrust washers, and compressor wheel was balanced with one another when I get the hot side bored out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Gotta borrow a friends timing tool and should have it put together by today

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Engine is timed. Just need some misc stuff, bolt up trans/transfercase then drop in.

For all the guys that have dropped ms6 engines in, were you able to drop it in with the manifolds?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

Started it up today. Had a shit ton of backfiring, totally forgot to rescale the maf and didn't bring my computer. Also, forgot to gap the plugs. I'll fix the tune, gap the plugs and break it in tomorrow. Video to come

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[I_AINT_RICE]

So got it running, drove it down the block. Immediately after the pull, started to backfire and barely idle. As soon as there is any load it tries to die. I'll post up a log in a couple. Has a little bit of white smoke from exhaust . Honestly looks like I have quite a bit of water in the tank. Which wouldn't be totally out of the question givin the fact the car was parked outside during monsoon season with the fuel lines opened.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Enki]

Something came loose, air leak or something probably.

[sheston]

Don't supposed you forgot to plug the MAF back in :-)

[I_AINT_RICE]

Blew a head gasket first pull. Not sure how but looks to be. Oil in the coolant.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Mazdazilla6]

What headstuds/bolts are you using and are you running an aftermarket headgasket? Also check to make sure it's not an oil cooler leak that's causing them to mix.

[I_AINT_RICE]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 What headstuds/bolts are you using and are you running an aftermarket headgasket? Also check to make sure it's not an oil cooler leak that's causing them to mix.

Never thought about the oil cooler... I'll have to check it tomorrow! Arp 2000 studs. Dnj gasket.

Reused the arp from my last block. Had 30k on them

Pulled the valve cover today, coolant was all over the head

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Mazdazilla6]

Never heard of DNJ. You should consider throwing a stock gasket in there. Might also want think about using stock headbolts since those ARPs don't really have a proper torque spec to hold more than the stock bolts can.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by I_AINT_RICE Never thought about the oil cooler... I'll have to check it tomorrow! Arp 2000 studs. Dnj gasket.

Use the L19 or CA625 head studs and OEM head gasket. Do not use the ARP2000 unless you're not planning to make more than like 420-430whp.

[I_AINT_RICE]

Originally Posted by mituc Use the L19 or CA625 head studs and OEM head gasket. Do not use the ARP2000 unless you're not planning to make more than like 420-430whp.

Already purchased a felpro replacement and oem head bolts. They should be adequate though

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk