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What You Need to Know to Build a Motor What You Need to Know to Build a Motor: @Raider can I get a sticky? So lately I have been wanting to build a motor for my car. I know I only want to do it once and do it right (and for the right price obviously). After a nice long conversation with Gerry (@NJSPEED3) last night until 3am, I realized something. The whole conversation culminated with me saying, “Gerry, I honestly don’t know what I want”. With this humbling little epiphany, I decided there is still much to be learned and I want to share with the community what I find. This thread is to serve as the ultimate resource for building engines. There are plenty of other build threads to read up on first, @StreetUnitMark (http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...s-build-22217/ ) , @BlueStreak (How To: Assemble A Forged MZR DISI Motor | SpeedForums.org ), and @djuosnteisn ( http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...d-motor-45023/ ) to name a few with tons of informative build pictures and information. There are tons of different combinations of parts and set-ups to use and I would like to get everyone’s opinion of which works, which doesn’t when it comes to different topics as rod/piston design, compression, to bore or not to bore, etc. I am going to use a list of parts that needs to be bought along with some recommended parts, and all other options and notes. I would like to give credit to much of my list of parts to this thread: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...3/#post1253420 and also my knowledge and knowledge that I have gained from conversations with many other members. I will also be using pictures that I find throughout the forums and giving credit as I do. If I use one of your pictures and don’t want me to, let me know and I will change it. This should be a group effort that I would like to spearhead and organize into a thread, so please as I go through the different parts, give your input on how they work, how they are designed, other places to buy, and any other information you can add. Credit will be given where deserved. I also would like to include which members are running what parts (if you feel comfortable giving that information to the community. I understand some people like to keep their builds somewhat secret). All I ask is that if you can, please contribute to the information in this thread (and correct me if I am wrong) to help me, others who are planning to build, and others who have already built a motor to further this community and platform as a whole. Now onto the good part: BUILDING THE BOTTOM END There are a bunch of parts that you will need to buy no matter what your other options are. Those are as follows: The Block http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...ngineBlock.jpg (Pic taken from @BlueStreak from How To: Assemble A Forged MZR DISI Motor | SpeedForums.org) To my knowledge, all years of Mazdaspeed3’s, Mazdaspeed6’s, and CX-7’s use the same exact block. Either will work and as long as there is no damage to the block, it will work. The blocks are made out of aluminum which is lightweight and will also dissipate heat pretty well. Being that they are aluminum, our blocks come sleeved with (****WHAT MATERIAL ARE THEY MADE OUT OF). These sleeves can be bored over to up to 0.040 (****NEED CONFIRMATION) and are appropriate to handle most applications or boost. Where to buy: You can purchase these from other members, dealerships, junk yards, and other places as well. Prices should range from about $300-$600 depending on where you buy. The Oil Pan http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...tor/OilPan.jpg (Pic taken from @whoosh@Realtune from http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...nstalled-1449/ ) The oil pan is also made out of aluminum. To my knowledge, I don’t believe there are any aftermarket options to the stock oil pan. Where to buy: You can purchase these from other members, dealerships, junk yards, and other places as well. I have no idea how much they would cost, probably within the range of $50-$150 depending on where you buy. Oil Pan Windage Tray / Oil Pan Baffle Now the stock oil pan comes with a 2 piece baffle in the oil pan to help with oil sloshing around too much. There is a huge space in the middle where there is no baffle because of the balance shaft that is normally on the car. If this is removed (commonly called a bsd for balance shaft delete), there is a huge space where there is no baffling. Just to go over the difference between a baffle and a windage tray, the baffle (vertical portion) is meant to keep the oil near the oil pick-up during a hard turn where a windage tray (horizontal portion) is meant to keep the oil from splashing everywhere. Options: GP-WERKS Where to buy: GP-WERKS https://www.gp-werks.com/products/Du...peed-3%29.html http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...lBaffleKit.jpg Price: $65.00 + $5.00(shipping) = $70.00 (There is also a combo with baffle and BSD for $90.00 shipped https://www.gp-werks.com/products/Du...peed-3%29.html ) Balance Shaft / Delete (BSD) http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...lanceShaft.jpg (Pic taken from @danesti from http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-delete-22203/ ) The balance shaft is a 17 pound piece of equipment located under the crankshaft under cylinder 3 that is spun by a gear on the crankshaft. That does not mean that if you delete it then you have 17 less pounds of rotating mass, but it does free up some friction against the crank as it spins. (Remember from science that friction is any force that works against motion.) Removal of this can get rid of the extra drag, but remember, it was put there for a reason. Remove at your own risk. With removal, you may notice increased vibrations at certain resonance rpm’s. Where to buy: SURE SURE Motorsports Balance Shaft Delete http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...haftDelete.jpg Price: $35.00 +$0 (free shipping) = $35.00 GP-WERKS https://www.gp-werks.com/products/GP...elete-Kit.html http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...haftDelete.jpg Price: $27.50 + $0(free shipping) = $27.50 (There is also a combo with baffle and BSD for $90.00 shipped https://www.gp-werks.com/products/Du...peed-3%29.html ) COSWORTH Duratec balance shaft delete - Cosworth USA http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...haftDelete.jpg Price: $39.00 MASSIVE Massive Speed Balance Shaft Delete Kit - Massive Hardcore Racing Performance Parts - Massive Speed System - Ford Focus Specialists http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...haftDelete.jpg Price: $34.99 CFM CFM Balance Shaft Delete BSD for '03-07 2.3L Duratec Focus http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...haftDelete.jpg Price: $29.95 (I just found this one and I do not know who is running this if anyone) Crankshaft http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...Crankshaft.jpg (Pic taken from @StreetUnitMark from http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...s-build-22217/ ) If you don’t know what a crankshaft is by now then you need to learn how a car works. I have heard talk about using a crankshaft from a regular mazdas3 which will destroke the engine to a 2.0L. (****SOMEONE PLEASE SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS.) Where to buy: STREETUNIT Crankshaft: MAZDASPEED 3, MAZDASPEED 6, CX-7 http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...Crankshaft.jpg Price: $1096.00 + $0 (free shipping) = $1096.00 You can also buy from a dealership or other members and junkyards. Crankshaft Cradle/Girdle http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...haftCradle.jpg (Pic taken from @StreetUnitMark from http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...s-build-22217/ ) To my knowledge, there are no upgrades to this part of the engine. It holds the crankshaft to the engine block itself. Where to buy: You can purchase these from other members, dealerships, junk yards, and other places as well. I have no idea how much they would cost, probably within the range of $0-$1000 (aka I have no idea) depending on where you buy. Oil Pump http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...or/OilPump.jpg (Pic taken from @BlueStreak from How To: Assemble A Forged MZR DISI Motor | SpeedForums.org) To my knowledge, there are no upgrades to the stock oil pump. It pumps oil through your engine. Where to buy: STREETUNIT Oil Pump http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...nitOilPump.jpg Price: $215.00 + $0 (free shipping) = $215.00 You can also buy from a dealership or other members and junkyards. Oil Pick Up Tube http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...PickUpTube.jpg (Pic taken from @StreetUnitMark from http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...s-build-22217/ ) Where to buy: STREETUNIT Oil Pan Strainer Tube http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...PickUpTube.jpg Price: $34.99 + $0 (free shipping) = $34.99 Oil Squirters http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...ilSquirter.jpg (Pic taken from @BlueStreak from How To: Assemble A Forged MZR DISI Motor | SpeedForums.org) These are basically little tubes that direct some oil flow to the underside of the pistons. You will need 4 of these, one for each cylinder. For certain rod/piston setups, these must be bent slightly to increase clearance (****WHAT SETUPS AND HOW TO BEND) Where to buy: You can purchase these from other members, dealerships, junk yards, and other places as well. I have no idea how much they would cost, probably within the range of $0-$500 (aka I have no idea) depending on where you buy. Main Bearings http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...inbearings.jpg (Pic taken from @BlueStreak from How To: Assemble A Forged MZR DISI Motor | SpeedForums.org) These are each half circles that hold the crankshaft and go between it and the block and cradle/girdle. There are 5 sets each having a half with oil passages (for block side) and just half circles (for cradle/girdle side). Where to buy: STREET UNIT Mazda OEM Main Bearings 2.3 MZR: Mazdaspeed6, Mazdaspeed3, CX7 http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...inbearings.jpg Price: $110.00 + 0(free shipping) = $110.00 You can also buy from a dealership or other members and junkyards. Main Studs These studs hold the crank cradle/girdle to the rest of the block. Options: ARP Where to buy: STREET UNIT ARP Main Studs http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...tMainStuds.jpg Price: $128.14 + $0(free shipping) = $128.14 EDGE AUTOSPORT ARP Main Stud Kit MS3 MS6 MZR http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...tMainStuds.jpg Price $126.14 + Shipping Head Studs http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r.../HeadStuds.jpg (Pic taken from @BlueStreak from How To: Assemble A Forged MZR DISI Motor | SpeedForums.org) These studs hold the head to the block. Options: ARP Where to buy: EDGE AUTOSPORT ARP Head Stud Kit MS3 MS6 MZR http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...tHeadStuds.jpg Price: $179.82 + Shipping MAPERFORMANCE ARP Head Stud Kit 2007 - 2009 Mazdaspeed3 - Modern Automotive Performance http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...eHeadStuds.jpg Price: $143.99 + Shipping JSCSPEED 07-10 Mazdaspeed3 ARP Head Studs: JSC Speed http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...dHeadStuds.jpg Price: $151.05 + Shipping Engine Internals: Rods/Pistons Ok, now it gets confusing. This is the part where you have TONS of options. There are an overwhelming variety of different possible setups for this and I will attempt to explain them in an organized manner. That being said, this is the area where I know the least as of now. I will be doing a bunch of research, but this is where I need the community’s help the most. As I put up information, please add if I am missing something. If you have a built motor, please let me know what you have and if you have anything you can share about the product(s) you have. Background information you need to know about Pistons Introduction to piston design for forced induction engines | HorsepowerCalculators.net Bore The bore is basically what the diameter of the cylinder is. Our stock bore is 87.5mm/3.445in. When you have an engine “bored and honed”, the cylinder is basically cut wider (boring) and then polished inside (honing). When the diameter of the cylinder is increased, the displacement of the engine increases as well. Bigger displacement means more can fit into the engine and it will also increase engine compression (thanks @Jonnyquest ). "There is one massive con when it comes to overboring. If you overbore you increase the chance of overheating your engine. Your cylinder walls act like a heat-sink to spread the heat around evenly to all the coolant passages. If you overbore there is less material to spread the heat so hot spots occur and boils the coolant. Another thing is when you overbore the heat generated during the power cycle is greater which acts as a multiplier to the above." (thanks @MS6_Newb ) (*****CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ELABORATE ON PROS AND CONS) Wrist Pin (Gudgeon Pin) The wrist pin (Gudgeon Pin) is basically what holds the piston to the rod. There are a couple different types depending on your setup, but most of these piston/rod assemblies need to be put together by a machine shop as the average person does not have the correct equipment. The stock wrist pin is 22.5mm, but other pistons/rods can use either the 22.5mm or 22mm wrist pins so you need to make sure it matches up. Compression The compression ratio, in a nutshell, is the ratio of volume in the cylinder from its largest capacity to its smallest. From what I have found through a little research is that the higher the compression, the more thermal efficiency and power you get, but the more prone you are to knocking. I really know very little about the effects of changing compression on these motors and have heard that it did not work well in the past, but now that we have more tuning controls, more and more are experimenting with changing compression. The stock compression is 9:5:1, but lower compression ratios are available for different pistons. I have also heard that compression changes as you drive the car for longer, such as at highway speeds, but I do not know how, why, and with what effects. (*****CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SHED SOME LIGHT) Piston Domes Different pistons obviously will be made differently and one important factor when choosing a piston is the design of the dome. The tops of the pistons aren’t just flat and depending on their design, they will perform differently. I believe valve reliefs are cut into all of the pistons available, including stock, so that the piston doesn’t smack into an open valve on its way up. The stock pistons are flat with valve reliefs, but other aftermarket pistons will have different designs which will all effect the distribution of fuel in the combustion chamber. Background information you need to know about Rods Rod Tech Rod Design This is one of the most important characteristics of the connecting rod that you will have to look at. There are many different designs, the most prominent being I-Beam, A-Beam, H-Beam, and X-Beam design. I-Beam http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...gRod-IBeam.jpg These rods are common to most stock engines (including our own) and feature a non-tapered “hole” along the connecting rod. A-Beam http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...gRod-ABeam.jpg These rods are stronger than stock and are very light-weight. They have a tapered “hole” along the connecting rod which gives it its name “A”. These come in different designs, including the regular A and the Super-A (The super being stronger). H-Beam http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...gRod-HBeam.jpg These rods are much stronger than the I-Beam and A-Beam. This is the choice for many high power engine builds. X-Beam http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...gRod-XBeam.jpg This design is made mostly by Pauter and have a single rib going down the middle giving it one strong point rather than two. It is light-weight because of this design, but might not support the same power that an H-Beam will. Options: ***When choosing a rod, you need to pay close attention to the wrist pin size. This MUST match to the piston. Stock wrist pin is 22.5mm, but some rods/pistons come in 22mm. The smaller wrist pin can be machined the extra 0.5mm to work with 22.5mm pistons, but I honestly wouldn't recommend it if you have the option not to.*** ***I am also not putting prices in this section because there are so many different options that including prices here would be confusing*** A-Beam Carrillo **Available in 22mm and 22.5mm wrist pins*** Where to buy: EDGE AUTOSPORT Carrillo Super A Beam Connecting Rods Mazdaspeed 3 6 MS3 MS6 Carrillo Super A Beam Connecting Rods Mazdaspeed 3 6 MS3 MS6 http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...rrilloRods.jpg STREETUNIT Carrillo Forged Connecting Rods http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...rrilloRods.jpg H-Beam Carrillo **Available in 22mm and 22.5mm wrist pins*** Where to buy: EDGE AUTOSPORT http://www.edgeautosport.com/carrill...t-pin-mzr-disi http://www.edgeautosport.com/carrill...-pin-mzr-disi/ http://www.edgeautosport.com/carrill...-pin-mzr-disi/ http://www.edgeautosport.com/carrill...-pin-mzr-disi/ http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...RodsH-Beam.jpg Molnar Technologies *** 22.5mm wrist pins*** Where to buy: STREET UNIT http://www.streetunit.com/Molnar_Tec...zh5927mgb4.htm http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...ectingRods.jpg K1 **Available in 22mm and 22.5mm wrist pins*** Where to buy: EDGE AUTOSPORT http://www.edgeautosport.com/k1-conn...mzr-disi-2-3l/ http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...portK1Rods.jpg CP-E http://www.cp-e.com/products/mazdasp...r-23-disi-rods http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r.../CPEK1Rods.jpg X-Beam Pauter **Available in 22.5mm wrist pins*** Where to buy: STREET UNIT http://www.streetunit.com/Pauter_For...-550-1505f.htm http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...PauterRods.jpg To Be Continued... |
Why you no VIP? I has monies |
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as for the msf bucks, i did this to help the community, not for bucks thread will be updated periodically, i just spent a few hours so far on it and im tired lol |
I only asked to give msf bucks. Personal issues, no worries. Hell of a thread. |
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This post is very useful and full of info. However, you asked if there are any more pros and cons on overboring an engine. There is one massive con when it comes to overboring. If you overbore you increase the chance of overheating your engine. Your cylinder walls act like a heatsink to spread the heat around evenly to all the coolant passages. If you overbore the is less material to spread the heat so hot spots occur and boils the coolant. Another thing is when you overbore the heat generated during the power cycle is greater which acts as a multiplier to the above. If your wondering why I say/know this, well, I talk from experience. I overbored a honda .020 over and ever since then the car ran hotter than normal. It over heated a few times until I upgraded the cooling system. I don't want to discourage anybody but let this be a fair warning to not go to big. |
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Miss out the oil pump .. |
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Thrust bearing? Also not to discourage buying OEM parts from sponsors, but they are all less from parkmazda.com. Thanks thou as I have been making a spreadsheet to figure out costs and this helped. I had not accounted for certain things such as bearings and oil pump. I also need to add seals, and junk, Head gasket...also i have a DCR VVT on my list for 230, or OEM for 120ish. I was thinking of going with just the revised OEM pistons for 280. Have not decided on rods. Also want to know what machine costs would be, but I have it estimated at $1000. I highly doubt my block needs to be machined so I wish I just had the bore gauge to do it myself. |
updated with rod options |
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With pharmaceutical help, mind you. |
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Nice write up though.. gives a good look at the options and what your wanting to go with. |
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Any help on fiding info on pulling engine and putting one back in? I have not seen a "how to" on this yet. It may be strait forward, but I have to pull one and place it in another car in a weekend so would like to make sure I am ready... |
i would assume its pretty straight foward.. hoses/wires/ moto mounts. Easiest way i believe is taking the front end off and come out from the front instead of the top. you can do it that way. but i hear its more of a pain in the ass to do it.. |
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You may want to add some need-to-replace parts for a rebuild like a new crank pulley bolt, rear main seal. Also reiterate how main and head studs are not reusable and to absolutely replace them as they are torque to yield (same goes for the crank pulley bolt). |
you can reuse them as long as theyre checked |
No you can't... you HAVE to change the crank pulley bolt and main/head studs. Torque-to-yield fastener - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
As well as the friction washers for the crank bolt. Those things are a MUST be replaced Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 |
Friction washers yes need to be changed, but studs can be reused if they are already an aftermarket kind, as long as they are checked and within spec. Many like arp are made so that they can be reused if you need to tear down for repair |
Great thread. Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2 |
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For me, I would hate to be half way into an install of a head, all popped in and then realize that I have to replace one fucking stud, after having tightened them all. In all honesty, if I was doing a full rebuild, I'd buy the studs regardless, chalk it up to the cost of doing business. |
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2 Attachment(s) Bunch of info for this thread is attached :) I'll do more like this if anyone wants specific info. It seemed to me getting these parts together took me forever, so this should be a quick reference for OE parts. |
Get the piston write up done? Thanks for what is here so far. |
Some notes I have: 1. If you have to send your block to a machine shop for work (which you will for pretty much any build), have them tap the oil port in the block for the balance shaft and put a plug in it. Much better than a BSD kit IMO, and cheaper. 2. Rear main seal needs to go on BEFORE the oil pan. The RTV you put on the pan won't seal right if you put the rear main seal on afterwards. 3. If you remove the balance shaft, have the machine shop balance the crank. It is most likely WAY off balance as it appears Mazda doesn't bother balancing it due to the balance shaft. (My crank had some serious material taken out to balance it). It's a good idea to have the flywheel balanced too. 4. If you reuse any engine parts after your ZZB, be sure to clean every little bit of metal out of the pan, oil pump & pickup tube, etc. last thing you want is to blow your several grand engine because of a small chunk of cast aluminum from the old block. Tapadatass |
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"Aluminum has a much higher coefficient of thermal expansion than iron, so the block tends to pull away from the sleeve when it gets hot. Consequently, more interference fit is usually required when an iron dry sleeve is installed in an aluminum block, say .003˝ to .004˝." Source |
Hey all, I'll try to update the thread as soon as I can, life's kinda busy wih my car exploding, I'm buying a house, and I'm a teacher full time so that takes up a lot. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a pm and ill answer pretty quick |
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you can also disassemble the pump and clean it to be 100% sure |
Out of curiosity and iniexperience...has anyone just slapped a good head onto a decent block? Assuming no overheating? I also picked up some Gen2 pistons w/rings in case the pistons weren't in good shape; would I need to get everything checked out at a machine shop to use them? I'm assuming yes but money is tight. |
Is there a piston write up coming? There are many different styles, makes, and models. Wondering if you could clarify on the benefits of each. |
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That was my question ;) lol. I can wait. Doing a build this spring so when ever you get a chance that would be very helpful. |
lol im working on it. buying a house now is taking up most of my time that isnt already taken up by my own car being all exploded and my job. itll be up eventually |
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Engine_displacement