The Breakdown

[WetzMS3]

Simply and effective. I like it.

[Realgib3]

Also as for elevation correction. I'm all for it, but I think we'd have to figure out a good way to skew the correction only for the back half of the track. The front half, especially for the 3's, is where all the time is made up, and that's the area that doesn't need any correction for elevation.

Again, I'm not sure a good way to do it, but I can understand the desire to have some correction.

[Mazdazilla6]

I like those rules too. I also like the idea of the CF for the back stretch. I was never against an elevation CF, I just want it to be fair.

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 The Buschur Shootout is now in its 24th year and is extremely successful. I have been going for a loooong time and I personally think a tweaked version of their class setup would work really well for us. Most of this is just copy/pasted from this years class rules, but I'm obviously changing the platform names. I'm also removing any tire type/size requirements because A) We don't have a lot of options that fit anyway and B) FWD needs slicks, so I'm not about to limit anything to DR's. ------------------------------------ -STOCK TURBO-(ST) -Any FWD/AWD- DISI MZR powered 3/6 -Car must retain stock appearing exhaust manifold. -Turbo must use the stock bolt pattern from the exhaust manifold/header to the turbine housing and be located in the stock location. -Turbo must retain STOCK compressor housing. This means bone stock turbo, S1, billet wheel upgraded k04's, etc. Nothing larger. -External dumps are not permitted. - Full exhaust exiting the rear of the vehicle is required. -FMIC, intercooler plumbing, turbo inlet with air filter, small battery kits are all OK for this class. -Two front seats, front door panels, full factory dash, center console and glove box door required. -No Lexan. ----------------------------------------------------------- -STOCK APPEARING TURBO-(SAT) -Any FWD/AWD- DISI MZR powered 3/6 -Car may use any stock flanged exhaust manifold -Turbo must use the stock bolt pattern from the exhaust manifold/header to the turbine housing and be located in the stock location. -Turbo can have modified compressor housing. This means S3/4, CS, and ATP turbos. -External dumps are permitted. - Full exhaust exiting the rear of the vehicle is required. -FMIC, intercooler plumbing, turbo inlet with air filter, small battery kits are all OK for this class. -Two front seats, front door panels, full factory dash, center console and glove box door required. -No Lexan. -------------------------------------------------------- -QUICK STREET- (QS) -Any FWD/AWD- DISI MZR powered 3/6 - Any exhaust manifold may be used -OEM front and rear style/location suspension. Springs/coil overs/sway bars/control arms aftermarket are permitted. -Exhaust may exit anywhere. -Wastegates may exit anywhere. -Two front seats, front door panels, full factory dash, center console and glove box door required. -No Lexan. ----------------------------------------- Some things to note: -No turbo size restriction for QS class. There's a reason nobody runs anything bigger than a 64mm on these cars. You wanna throw a Super 99 on there and think it'll make you faster down the 1320, be my guest. -No fuel restriction for any class. We're DI, meth/aux fuel should be allowed for anyone who wants to use it. -No exact weight requirements. Most aren't serious enough to get their car weighed and good luck getting people to weigh their cars at tech before a race. The interior rules for all classes will allow enough weight reduction to make a difference, but require enough interior kept to make it fair across the board. -If you are the person complaining because a 58mm, non-stock flanged turbo is included with the "big boys" (cause 62mm is so huge right? lol) then guess what, go swap to a 60 or 62mm turbo if you think that'll make you more competitive in the class. A 62mm size turbo is still insanely streetable (As you can easily see in @LumberJack; recent TQ curve), so no, upgrading to that size will not make you immediately a full race car. One of the most interesting parts of the Shootout is the fact that people literally form their builds, choose their parts, etc, around these classes. I think instead of adding any more classes to appease the "tweeners", just use this structure to force some people to make some slight build changes. That's what makes it interesting. Anyway, those are just my thoughts, as someone who's seen a similar setup work extremely well for another import community.

Love it Mark, love the classes and that fits 95% of people right into something.

The only thing I'm standing firm on is the ET correction for altitude, and here's why.

1) You don't go to an event that's at altitude and get a corrected ET at the end of the pass, you ran what you ran.

2) You have the same capability of extra fueling of anyone at sea level. ( Hell, injectors get bigger at altitude so technically you have more fuel than someone at sea level with the same fuel system)

3) Those people that get killer air and DA like the east coast guys can get ( -1000DA etc ) you're telling me you're gonna correct there time slips to a slower time? No one is going to be okay with that.

4) Just to put it into light what type of corrections we are gonna be talking about.....

EXAMPLE: We will use Rob since he lives in the damn sky lol.... He runs a 10.5@140 and has a DA of 8k ft... You're going to be okay with correcting his run to a 10.06@145? I'm not trying to bash this, but that's a huge correction.....
Just my 2 cents

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by LumberJack Love it Mark, love the classes and that fits 95% of people right into something. The only thing I'm standing firm on is the ET correction for altitude, and here's why. 1) You don't go to an event that's at altitude and get a corrected ET at the end of the pass, you ran what you ran. 2) You have the same capability of extra fueling of anyone at sea level. ( Hell, injectors get bigger at altitude so technically you have more fuel than someone at sea level with the same fuel system) 3) Those people that get killer air and DA like the east coast guys can get ( -1000DA etc ) you're telling me you're gonna correct there time slips to a slower time? No one is going to be okay with that. Just my 2 cents

the only thing I have an issue with Is this "1) You don't go to an event that's at altitude and get a corrected ET at the end of the pass, you ran what you ran."

Not everyone has the luxury of being at lower altitude. Shit if I wasent in the military I wouldn't be a mile high, since this "event" is basically taking place at everyone's local track, something needs to be done for the individuals at altitude. For me, I don't think it would be that much of a difference, were talking maybe .1 or .2 tenths, but for stock turbo/smaller turbo applications they take the largest hit.

I mean even look at our set ups compared to each other, you're making 100hp more uncorrected when you're on all of it and our builds are very similar besides turbos and head set ups.

To make the event as even as possible you would have to give the guys at altitude some type of break.

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf the only thing I have an issue with Is this "1) You don't go to an event that's at altitude and get a corrected ET at the end of the pass, you ran what you ran." Not everyone has the luxury of being at lower altitude. Shit if I wasent in the military I wouldn't be a mile high, since this "event" is basically taking place at everyone's local track, something needs to be done for the individuals at altitude. For me, I don't think it would be that much of a difference, were talking maybe .1 or .2 tenths, but for stock turbo/smaller turbo applications they take the largest hit. I mean even look at our set ups compared to each other, you're making 100hp more uncorrected when you're on all of it and our builds are very similar besides turbos and head set ups. To make the event as even as possible you would have to give the guys at altitude some type of break.

You're also having issues holding boost up top to redline, I'm not... If you could hold your mid range boost to redline you'd be making well into the 900s corrected and probably well into the 800s uncorrected.

I didn't pull my corrected #s from just anywhere....

I used an ET correction calculator for a specific time and mph and DA for an example... Let's also note, you're going to penalize guys with good air quality and tell them they have to correct to a slower pass?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by LumberJack I didn't pull my corrected #s from just anywhere.... I used an ET correction calculator for a specific time and mph for an example... Let's also note, you're going to penalize guys with good air quality and tell them they have to correct to a slower pass?

I didn't see anything about penalizing people for a negative DA, just corrected people above a set DA.

For example, people with a 4000ft DA get .1 tenth

6000 DA get .2 tenths and so on. Just throwing out examples.

I didn't see your correction example, was that from the NHRA correction?

I'll tell you now I've seen local cars run at sea level and pick up 5+ mph.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune I'll be stuck in the same class as Bryce and Shawn though. So I'll be the under dog. But it's all good. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dont you weigh like 200 lbs less than bryce?

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf I didn't see anything about penalizing people for a negative DA, just corrected people above a set DA. For example, people with a 4000ft DA get .1 tenth 6000 DA get .2 tenths and so on. Just throwing out examples. I didn't see your correction example, was that from the NHRA correction? I'll tell you now I've seen local cars run at sea level and pick up 5+ mph.

Exactly my point... The correction factor is huge from sea level 0 DA to where you're at, hence why the correction was damn near 6mph and .5 ET...

The correction was from an online ET correction website where you can use DA and what not to adjust your times if you were curious about different DA and how it effects your current slip.

[Justin@Freektune]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny dont you weigh like 200 lbs less than bryce?

I wouldn't go that far.

[SofaKingAwesome]

You guys need to hire jockeys to drive for you.
@phate; would be a perfect fit.

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome You guys need to hire jockeys to drive for you. @phate; would be a perfect fit.

Evan just came up with the best idea ever. Professional drag race jockey. Justin and Bryce can sit in the stands sipping Mint Juleps in suits while their wives or concubines wear goofy hats and bet on the cars.

[udntknw]

An example of what my corrected ET and MPH would be given my time/day/track using drag times app.

Seems like it would be the easiest to do.

Edit: Top end only to give us fwd guys a break is lame. If we can't drive, we can't drive.

[PapaSmurf]

That seems pretty believable.

I input my last run from september of 2013 along with using the weather data from the same day and this is what my 11.7 run corrected to. This was when I was on my 35r.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1453835728.488267.jpg

[WetzMS3]

@Realgib3;, is there any restriction on type of fuel used at Buschur? I looked in the rules and did not see any mention of it. We should clarify that one way or another. Given the gains @LumberJack; recently saw switching to ignite 114, I could see others wanting to make changes if allowed.

I also think that there should be a deadline for these rules to be sorted out and official. Ideally, rules will be set and posted with enough time before the beginning of the competition to allow people time to make hardware changes and tune prior to the beginning of the event.

One last thought. If MSF is committed and really wants to make this a legit competition and an annual thing, I think that the goal for next year should be to host an actual event like Buschur somewhere close to centrally located. I understand that it's already to late to plan something like that for this season, however if planning started for next year soon, there is no reason we couldn't all gather for a weekend in 2017. That would eliminate all of the correction factor arguments, make keeping people honest easier, allow for grudge races, and just be a damn good time. It would take a lot of time and effort to organize, but I see it as the best and perhaps only way to have a legit competition like this.

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 @Realgib3;, is there any restriction on type of fuel used at Buschur? I looked in the rules and did not see any mention of it. We should clarify that one way or another. Given the gains @LumberJack; recently saw switching to ignite 114, I could see others wanting to make changes if allowed. I also think that there should be a deadline for these rules to be sorted out and official. Ideally, rules will be set and posted with enough time before the beginning of the competition to allow people time to make hardware changes and tune prior to the beginning of the event. One last thought. If MSF is committed and really wants to make this a legit competition and an annual thing, I think that the goal for next year should be to host an actual event like Buschur somewhere close to centrally located. I understand that it's already to late to plan something like that for this season, however if planning started for next year soon, there is no reason we couldn't all gather for a weekend in 2017. That would eliminate all of the correction factor arguments, make keeping people honest easier, allow for grudge races, and just be a damn good time. It would take a lot of time and effort to organize, but I see it as the best and perhaps only way to have a legit competition like this.

Ignite 114 requires a very large fuel system for those thinking about switching over to it. Pump e85 which in my area tested regularly between 85-90% ethanol content was only using about 40-45% of my PI fueling system ( ID 2000's with a 55psi base pressure ) and 90% IDC on the DI side.

Ignite 114 at the same boost and timing levels on the same fuel system brought my PI usage up over 80% so it nearly doubled the amount of injector it was using on the PI side of things, just food for thought when anyone thinks about switching fuels. The Specific Gravity of this fuel is .798

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by LumberJack Ignite 114 requires a very large fuel system for those thinking about switching over to it. Pump e85 which in my area tested regularly between 85-90% ethanol content was only using about 40-45% of my PI fueling system ( ID 2000's with a 55psi base pressure ) and 90% IDC on the DI side. Ignite 114 at the same boost and timing levels on the same fuel system brought my PI usage up over 80% so it nearly doubled the amount of injector it was using on the PI side of things, just food for thought when anyone thinks about switching fuels. The Specific Gravity of this fuel is .798

Thanks for the info, sir. I actually assumed that it'd have that effect on IDC's without looking it up, but even more so. Knowing those numbers, it may actually be an option for me to consider.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 @Realgib3;, is there any restriction on type of fuel used at Buschur? I looked in the rules and did not see any mention of it. We should clarify that one way or another. Given the gains @LumberJack; recently saw switching to ignite 114, I could see others wanting to make changes if allowed. I also think that there should be a deadline for these rules to be sorted out and official. Ideally, rules will be set and posted with enough time before the beginning of the competition to allow people time to make hardware changes and tune prior to the beginning of the event. One last thought. If MSF is committed and really wants to make this a legit competition and an annual thing, I think that the goal for next year should be to host an actual event like Buschur somewhere close to centrally located. I understand that it's already to late to plan something like that for this season, however if planning started for next year soon, there is no reason we couldn't all gather for a weekend in 2017. That would eliminate all of the correction factor arguments, make keeping people honest easier, allow for grudge races, and just be a damn good time. It would take a lot of time and effort to organize, but I see it as the best and perhaps only way to have a legit competition like this.

There's no fuel restriction at all, though most either run E98 or Methanol, pump E85 in some of the lower classes. I wouldn't think we should put any restriction on it for this event either.

As for your second point... you read my mind and that's exactly where I was going with the Buschur stuff. It's a really amazing event and I would love for us to eventually be able to make this an actual event like that in the future. I think this is a good start though.

[Easter Bunny]

If we have a stock tune stock turbo class I am in.

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Thanks for the info, sir. I actually assumed that it'd have that effect on IDC's without looking it up, but even more so. Knowing those numbers, it may actually be an option for me to consider.

Biggest thing to keep in mind is not if you're injectors are big enough, but if you have enough pump to keep up with those pressures. ID 2000's can be ran up to 130psi with linear flow patterns so I'm not quite pushing mine too hard yet on that aspect. I'd have to say based on the chart ID publishes my 2000s are flowing between 3000-3300cc/min when they will flow up to a max of about 3800ish.

I have a GIGANTIC inline fuel pump which helps a lot

[connor_cwp]

I've never even been to a drag strip and my car is slow but fuck it, why not?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[WetzMS3]

Maybe the 5 or 6 of us interested should just meet up at some point this summer?

Seems dead again.

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Maybe the 5 or 6 of us interested should just meet up at some point this summer? Seems dead again.

just like the forum.

[mazdafreak]

I'm in......

[Justin@Freektune]

I'm still not sold on elevation correction for the simple fact of fueling and headroom and a million other factors. But looking forward to the final details and will likely be in regardless. Cause I'll wax dem asses. You too Shawn. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune I'm still not sold on elevation correction for the simple fact of fueling and headroom and a million other factors. But looking forward to the final details and will likely be in regardless. Cause I'll wax dem asses. You too Shawn. Lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure if I should groan you or not..........

[Haltech]

Ok, ive read through all of the posts.. So, i agree, it needs to be simpler. We have plenty of time to make these rules before we get started. So lets CHOOSE 3 classes that work. I don't want to create a pissing contest or people being butthurt because of things being unfair. Its bad enough some will get a later start simply because snow hasn't melted or what not.

We could base them off max horsepower or, based off turbo size. Which route do you want to go? I can add an all out STOCK TURBO class to the mix.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Haltech Ok, ive read through all of the posts.. So, i agree, it needs to be simpler. We have plenty of time to make these rules before we get started. So lets CHOOSE 3 classes that work. I don't want to create a pissing contest or people being butthurt because of things being unfair. Its bad enough some will get a later start simply because snow hasn't melted or what not. We could base them off max horsepower or, based off turbo size. Which route do you want to go? I can add an all out STOCK TURBO class to the mix.

The classing that @Realgib3; laid out similar to Buschur seems to be simple and accepted by those interested so far.

Originally Posted by Realgib3 The Buschur Shootout is now in its 24th year and is extremely successful. I have been going for a loooong time and I personally think a tweaked version of their class setup would work really well for us. Most of this is just copy/pasted from this years class rules, but I'm obviously changing the platform names. I'm also removing any tire type/size requirements because A) We don't have a lot of options that fit anyway and B) FWD needs slicks, so I'm not about to limit anything to DR's. ------------------------------------ -STOCK TURBO-(ST) -Any FWD/AWD- DISI MZR powered 3/6 -Car must retain stock appearing exhaust manifold. -Turbo must use the stock bolt pattern from the exhaust manifold/header to the turbine housing and be located in the stock location. -Turbo must retain STOCK compressor housing. This means bone stock turbo, S1, billet wheel upgraded k04's, etc. Nothing larger. -External dumps are not permitted. - Full exhaust exiting the rear of the vehicle is required. -FMIC, intercooler plumbing, turbo inlet with air filter, small battery kits are all OK for this class. -Two front seats, front door panels, full factory dash, center console and glove box door required. -No Lexan. ----------------------------------------------------------- -STOCK APPEARING TURBO-(SAT) -Any FWD/AWD- DISI MZR powered 3/6 -Car may use any stock flanged exhaust manifold -Turbo must use the stock bolt pattern from the exhaust manifold/header to the turbine housing and be located in the stock location. -Turbo can have modified compressor housing. This means S3/4, CS, and ATP turbos. -External dumps are permitted. - Full exhaust exiting the rear of the vehicle is required. -FMIC, intercooler plumbing, turbo inlet with air filter, small battery kits are all OK for this class. -Two front seats, front door panels, full factory dash, center console and glove box door required. -No Lexan. -------------------------------------------------------- -QUICK STREET- (QS) -Any FWD/AWD- DISI MZR powered 3/6 - Any exhaust manifold may be used -OEM front and rear style/location suspension. Springs/coil overs/sway bars/control arms aftermarket are permitted. -Exhaust may exit anywhere. -Wastegates may exit anywhere. -Two front seats, front door panels, full factory dash, center console and glove box door required. -No Lexan. ----------------------------------------- Some things to note: -No turbo size restriction for QS class. There's a reason nobody runs anything bigger than a 64mm on these cars. You wanna throw a Super 99 on there and think it'll make you faster down the 1320, be my guest. -No fuel restriction for any class. We're DI, meth/aux fuel should be allowed for anyone who wants to use it. -No exact weight requirements. Most aren't serious enough to get their car weighed and good luck getting people to weigh their cars at tech before a race. The interior rules for all classes will allow enough weight reduction to make a difference, but require enough interior kept to make it fair across the board. -If you are the person complaining because a 58mm, non-stock flanged turbo is included with the "big boys" (cause 62mm is so huge right? lol) then guess what, go swap to a 60 or 62mm turbo if you think that'll make you more competitive in the class. A 62mm size turbo is still insanely streetable (As you can easily see in @LumberJack; recent TQ curve), so no, upgrading to that size will not make you immediately a full race car. One of the most interesting parts of the Shootout is the fact that people literally form their builds, choose their parts, etc, around these classes. I think instead of adding any more classes to appease the "tweeners", just use this structure to force some people to make some slight build changes. That's what makes it interesting. Anyway, those are just my thoughts, as someone who's seen a similar setup work extremely well for another import community.

[WetzMS3]

[Micha]

I am in for slowest Speed 6. LOL.

[Tomas]

This thing you call racing.
It isn't.
But you had me there for a while.

[WetzMS3]

So.....2017 race season?

[mazdafreak]

Im just here to fuck bitches and get money

[WetzMS3]

MSF drag competition or woman president first?

[Easter Bunny]

[Justin@Freektune]

Bryce is gonna be low 10's before track even opens up here haha

(must turn him down when he's not looking)

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune Bryce is gonna be low 10's before track even opens up here haha (must turn him down when he's not looking)

Woah, woah, woah... What kinda friendship is this?! I think I specifically remember you saying "The tuner makes his friends faster"

[MS3Shadow]

sent from my Nexus 6P

[WetzMS3]

#inb4rulesaresetrightafterbrycebreaksrecord

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 #inb4rulesaresetrightafterbrycebreaksrecord Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

And that's supposed to mean what lol?

I fully intend to break the record regardless sooner rather than later as that's always been my goal.